90g Frag Display 10g Refuge/sump Phyto Copepod Culture

[Dr Bluethumb]

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/phys.org/news/2014-09-coral-minuscule-appendages-environment-eddies.amp

 

[AdInfinitum]

In my life time I hope to see sponges replace skimmers and micro to replace macro algae.

Actually for those of us who have been keeping marine aquaria for 30+ years (and there a number on this site). That's how we did it back then...the only equipment available was DIY and unproven so we built self supporting biological systems. All the new toys are by no means necessary they just extend the possibilities.

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

Have you ever dosed phyto to replace macro? dosing phyto and microplankton is cutting edge. But I am sure old school too?

I was thinking of setting up a phyto drip, nannochlorupsus oculata. Bad idea? Been done before on a flourishing deverse real populateed reef with lots of mini clean up crew, sponges and coral?

I'm pretty excited to give it a try, for simplicity and fun.

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

Actually for those of us who have been keeping marine aquaria for 30+ years (and there a number on this site). That's how we did it back then...the only equipment available was DIY and unproven so we built self supporting biological systems. All the new toys are by no means necessary they just extend the possibilities.

That is cool. I love try to set up a biologiecal system. old school mixed with new school. I'm not against test kits,ATS,refuges, skimmer rodi. I think for what I am trying, it is best for me to stick with what I know and have tried and that I am used too.

Going to go with the cheato until it stops growing on my 90G/10G refuge/sump.

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

I learned a new word today: Phychology the study of algae, lol. Anyone have some names of some good books?
or on sponges, copepods and coral too?





I am getting conflicting info that Phytoplankton algae last a few days to several months, can the 30 plus year biologist please confirm. thanks, Clint Paul Johnson, should I believe NASA AMES?

I believe this answer:

To a large extent, the lifespan of a plankton species depends on the size of the organism. Single-celled plankton reproduce by cell division. Thus, it can be said that the cells never truly die. However, the one-celled plankton divide as frequently as every few hours up to every few days, depending on the growth conditions and the species.

Lets discuss phychology please?

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

Some day we will have a ultra high food tank vs a ultra low food tank and see if the light can be lowered on corals as long as we feed them more??Coral have clade algae in them, so one type is dominant. but they have several kinds of clade algae and can reshuffle them.. once reshuffled a low light dominant algae clade may be present. this is called adaptation.

What is the equivalent to 180 watt led to normal watts?

https://phys.org/news/2014-06-coral-transplant-survival.html#nRlv

https://phys.org/news/2014-02-scientists-highlight-importance-nutrients-coral.html#nRlv

https://reeformadness.wordpress.com/tag/nutrients/

microbrial food web

The main thing I think is that over s stripping of organics can be corrected a few times a week by feeding copepods and phyto while leaving the skimmer off. then turn it on. it sounds like a pain, but if you want better color and more growth this will do it imo

If you are relying on fishpoo for nutrition. Then instaed the phyto should be going through the pod, the fish then the coral. instead you should go pod to coral. or better yet phyto to coral.

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

 

[AdInfinitum]

I learned a new word today: Phychology the study of algae, lol. Anyone have some names of some good books?
or on sponges, copepods and coral too?





I believe this answer:

To a large extent, the lifespan of a plankton species depends on the size of the organism. Single-celled plankton reproduce by cell division. Thus, it can be said that the cells never truly die. However, the one-celled plankton divide as frequently as every few hours up to every few days, depending on the growth conditions and the species.

Lets discuss phychology please?

That answer is correct....

 

[AdInfinitum]

Some day we will have a ultra high food tank vs a ultra low food tank and see if the light can be lowered on corals as long as we feed them more??Coral have clade algae in them, so one type is dominant. but they have several kinds of clade algae and can reshuffle them.. once reshuffled a low light dominant algae clade may be present. this is called adaptation.

Nature has already preformed this experiment for several hundred million years...the result is that in areas of low light but high nutrient/food availability photosynthetic corals fail to adapt and non-photosynthetic species take over. eg Dendro, sun coral, NPS Gorgonian's etc etc...

Where organisms can be forced to adapt to situations for which they are not evolved to a degree...these situations always have a negative effect on the organisms health and therefore it's ability to grow, thrive and reproduce. Where back in the bad old days of reef-keeping it may have been desirable to try to compensate for the lack of proper lighting, the advent of t5ho and ultimately high intensity, short wavelength led emitters has made the availability of adequate lighting for even the most demanding corals readily available, inexpensive and efficient. Meaning that there is no need for hobbyists to have to try and compensate for inadequate lighting and no need to try to force corals to survive in less than ideal conditions.

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

True, i plan to force them under 2 x 90 wat Led instead of 2 x 140 watt Led. And this is with soft coral such as zoanthids, palythoas and shrooms of all kinds. I will not attempt sps.

So if they do not adapt to this lighting then I am out of the coral propagation aspect of the hobby and will then go fish only.

I will remain to culture phyto and copepods and try to breed mandarins instead.

zoanthids, palythoas and shrooms are in the half way point of requiring low to high light and should be more forgiving. I would think they would do fine in this tank, and if not, I can always put them near the surface.

Going to culture tigerpods, A,Tonsa, nanno and Iso, also. I am hoping cycle the tank with tiggerpods , ground up fish food and phyto. I hope to have a florishing harpacticoid population and culture on the side before attmpting to add the mandarins.

If I can get by with adding 2 flame angels, I would like to add them too. And maybe 2 x marroon clowns then I am done filling the 90G with fish. If I had to choose, it would be the mandarins and flames only. I will keep an eye on my P/N, before adding the marroons to the mix.

 

[AdInfinitum]

True, i plan to force them under 2 x 90 wat Led instead of 2 x 140 watt Led. And this is with soft coral such as zoanthids, palythoas and shrooms of all kinds. I will not attempt sps.

So if they do not adapt to this lighting then I am out of the coral propagation aspect of the hobby and will then go fish only.

I will remain to culture phyto and copepods and try to breed mandarins instead.

zoanthids, palythoas and shrooms are in the half way point of requiring low to high light and should be more forgiving. I would think they would do fine in this tank, and if not, I can always put them near the surface.

Going to culture tigerpods, A,Tonsa, nanno and Iso, also. I am hoping cycle the tank with tiggerpods , ground up fish food and phyto. I hope to have a florishing harpacticoid population and culture on the side before attmpting to add the mandarins.

If I can get by with adding 2 flame angels, I would like to add them too. And maybe 2 x marroon clowns then I am done filling the 90G with fish. If I had to choose, it would be the mandarins and flames only. I will keep an eye on my P/N, before adding the marroons to the mix.

2 of the very inexpensive China black box LED units (which they call 165 watt but actually only draw approximately 100 watts) would provide plenty of light and coverage for a 90gal full of Zoas and Mushroom...no force required!

 

[AdInfinitum]

BTW two flame angels together in a 90gallon is very risky over the long term. It may be possible if you get them small and add them together but even if they accept it when they are small...you would have to accept the possibility that as they grow one will eventually turn on the other and kill it. It is not unheard of for it to work out but remember that most of the "stories" you read on forums only involve success that lasts for less than a year. Fishes behavior in aquaria is always unpredictable since it is such a different environment than they have evolved for so anything can potentially happen.

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

My main thing I want with the tank is at minimum is one flame, one maroon clown and two mandarins. I have 1200 to spend on a light and am not sure what to get?Going to think it over for a month while the pods grow out.

what about this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ECHISKQ?th=1

x 2 for my 90G

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

My new phytoplankton station for nannochloropsis oculata:



Will start a 5 cup daily phyto drip on my 90g soon and add a bottle of tigerpods.

Will also add a tank under the phytoplankton station and add tiger pods to it.

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

I plan to breed fish too, S. Splendidus, which is the main reason for the cultures.

One reason is to keep mandarins in tip top breeding conditions. which is why I want to culture 2 types of phyto so that I have average to high amounts of both EPA and DHA and other nutritious elements.

The phyto will supply my harpacticoids copepods with nutrients which will be fed to my mandarins.

The two type of harpacticoids are tiger pods and tisbe, I may skip the tiger pods. I heard that tisbe Nauplii can be used to feed newly hatched mandarins is this true?

Or should I be on the safe side and culture tisbe and a colanoid copepod called A.Tonsa?

If I culture A.Tonsa then I may culture tigerpods instead of tisbe!

Please let me know your thoughts, because i do not want to waste time,money,energy on something that doesn't work?

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

I can not add a refuge to my 90G. so I will add a cfl light 90-100 watt equivelent to the sump and load the sump up with eggcrate and rocks for the pods and cross my finger's that they survive the trip up the return pump?

This will be the perfect chance to prove that a skimmer and refuge is not required and that micro can be the new macro.

If they do not survive the trip up the pump, then maybe they will be sliced into small pieces and used as food for the larger micro organisms in the display.

 

[AdInfinitum]

A couple of points...in over 30 years of keeping SW tanks I have only used skimmers for the last five years and don't always...there are plenty of skimmerless tanks around so no proof necessary. Skimmers and reactors just preform the same processes in a more space effective manner than natural processing.

Secondly in aquaria, phyto and other micro-algal forms will never replace Macros for nutrient export because micro fauna will always consume it far too rapidly for it to be self sustaining and since it must be dosed to be replenished it is not growing and consuming significant nutrients in the process.

In the ocean micro-algae do this job but it is a question of scale. To achieve the balance that exists in nature between reef and relatively empty open ocean...for your nano display tank you would need to fill your entire basement with water as the open ocean (sump) and bathe the entire surface area with intense sunlight as the driving energy source.

 

[Dr Bluethumb]

BTW two flame angels together in a 90gallon is very risky over the long term. It may be possible if you get them small and add them together but even if they accept it when they are small...you would have to accept the possibility that as they grow one will eventually turn on the other and kill it. It is not unheard of for it to work out but remember that most of the "stories" you read on forums only involve success that lasts for less than a year. Fishes behavior in aquaria is always unpredictable since it is such a different environment than they have evolved for so anything can potentially happen.

I think I may just have the mandarins in there to be honest. i have a few months to think about it and do not want other fish eating the pods for them. or the chance of aggression. Thanks for the info.