Josh's New 120g (in Planning)

[Josh]

As some of you may know i have been starting to stockpile equipment for my 120g build. Going to be a reef build with a mixed reef, i may venture into sps however its not my priority.

I am in the process of picking up a 120 gallon 5ft long tank i plan to use as a basement sump. i want to custom baffle it and design it for fuge/liverock/skimmer. Anybody had any good luck with custom sumps?
So far i have the following.

6 bulb aquaticlife t5ho
1 reefbrite 48" (on the hunt for another 1 of these)
120gallon dual corner overflow 48x24x24 (likely buying new)
custom stand @jeffopentax (TBD)
tunze wavebox (need to recommission/clean)
koralia powerhead

I am in the market for a pump, toying with DC adjustable to play with flowrate due to the sump being ~8-10 feet below the display.

I have done some research on protein skimmers however i have not found anything i like yet, Heavily open to suggestions on this.

I am going to start off having my GFO/Carbon in the sump between baffles, however ideally i will be adding a reactor soon after setup.

I have been reading a fair bit about DIY aquarium controllers, i may solder and build my own system. By the looks of it for about 75-100 i can make one, all the software for it is open source. Anbody tried this or have read up on this?


TLDR

1)Protein skimmer advice (~200gallon total water volume)
2)Pump
3)Substrate (argonite sand vs reef rubble)
4) Display tank rock (liverock vs dryrock vs mix)
5) arduino/raspberry pi DIY controllers

 

[TORX]

@kapelan is the guy to talk about that DIY for sure. Check out his build HERE. He did a great job on it, I only wish I was motivated enough to do so. I would do one for the seahorse tank instead of stringing over my Apex to it.

There is a 220 for sale on kijiji for $400 with stand. I just posted it on the deals and steals section.

 

[Josh]

Pretty good price, im getting a 5ft with a similar stand for 180. Going to use it to transfer my biocube over to the new house. Hoping to set the 120 up in my furnace room (where i plan to use it as a sump) and use my 4 ft t5 fixture on it. Toss a powerhead in there and use my tunze9004 temporarily. I still want to drill my biocube and add a sump. Becca wants the biocube in our bedroom like it is now. Having a sump on it would make maintenance so much easier :/

What do you think about the 120g temp tank. I was going to set it up with, transfer my ~35-40 lbs of liverock over to it, then move the fish over. They should be ok in there for 3-4 days while i drill and set the biocube back up you would think?

 

[shamous113]

I used a 6'lg 120 for my sump and added baffles, it worked out amazing. I'm running a Jebao DCT 15000 on my system with about 8' of head, I figure at full power its pushing 1200 - 1300gph. I ended up putting a check valve on the return line about 2' from the pump. in regards to the skimmer I'm running a Lifereef Sv3-30 and absolutely love it. it pulls tones of crap, simple and easy to maintain and if the pump dies you can replace it with any pump that has a comparable flow rate. @Nighthawk26 runs a Lifereef skimmer too and if he's parting out his system it may be a good opportunity for you. Regarding the rock for the tank, I used about 80lbs of dry tonga/branch for the one area. the rest of the rock in my tank was used rock that I "reincarnated" using bleach bath and then an acid bath. once my tank was cycled I added a seed rock that was loaded with coralline algae to help move things along.

 

[Josh]

Awesome thanks @shamous113. Unless i read it wrong nighthawk said he was keeping his equipment, may PM him and find out just to be safe. I was doing some research and if i want to buy a new skimmer (prefer not to) the options seem to be bubble magus 7 / reef octopus / vertex. Aiming for about a 200 gallon capacity on the skimmer. I dont have a huge drive for SPS (said same thing about corals in general....) so i dont need a super clean tank.

I take it you put the check valve on the inlet of the pump just incase the pump died that it wouldnt reverse siphon on you? Do you require the check valve if you are running your supply outlet in the tank near the top? Or is a check valve a pretty standard practice?

I am fairly sold on the idea of a DC pump, from what ive read jebao seems to be a pretty well made pump. I am hoping to pick up a large amount of dryrock for the display tank then take a couple rocks from my biocube (covered in coral line) to seed the main tank then fill my sump with most of the leftover liverock. I should have lots of time to fiddle/setup this build since i got my cube which will hopefully be setup alot nicer come move time.

If lifereef makes their skimmers as well as their HOB/siphon overflows then id imagine its a pretty good skimmer. People go absolutely nutty for the lifereef siphon overflows.

Alot of articles i have read recently seem to conclude that a slower flow thru the sump works better than a quick flow. Do you find that your skimmer works better on high or low flow?

How did you setup your baffles? Would be very interested to see how you did it. I was going to get some sheets of acryllic to do mine after the move. Plan is to use my new 5ft 120gallon (future sump) to house my biocube contents while i drill my cube and add a bashea mano 37 from @reefdiver.

once again thanks for the advice

 

[AdInfinitum]

Regarding check valves...
Check valves can be useful to reduce water level changes in your sump and DT while you are doing service etc. although you will pay a price in lost flow as they do add some amount of back pressure (some styles of check valves add significant amounts). Manual valves are a better option...

However....Never, Never, NEVER build a system that depends on a check valve to prevent flooding in the event of a power outage! No matter how diligent you are in regularly opening and cleaning that valve, one day (probably when you're lying drunk on a beach in the Dominican), a snail will crawl into that valve just as a snowstorm takes out your neighborhood's power.....

 

[Josh]

From the impression ive gotten during my research you want to size everything so if the pump shuts off you will drain to your overflow height, your sump has to take that extra volume, most sumps are baffled so they arent full so typically you are ok as long as you dont overfill.

 

[shamous113]

Awesome thanks @shamous113. Unless i read it wrong nighthawk said he was keeping his equipment, may PM him and find out just to be safe. I was doing some research and if i want to buy a new skimmer (prefer not to) the options seem to be bubble magus 7 / reef octopus / vertex. Aiming for about a 200 gallon capacity on the skimmer. I dont have a huge drive for SPS (said same thing about corals in general....) so i dont need a super clean tank.

Those are all great skimmers, the thing that pushed me to the LR is that most of the other companies produce tech for a couple of years then it becomes obsolete and you can't get parts for it, build quality, ease of use and reliability were high on my list. not how much $ was spent on marketing. @Sewerat is another good person to talk to about this, he went to LR due to parts and pumps becoming obsolete. All skimmers no matter the type have a very similar capacity to remove +-35% of the TOC.

I take it you put the check valve on the inlet of the pump just incase the pump died that it wouldnt reverse siphon on you? Do you require the check valve if you are running your supply outlet in the tank near the top? Or is a check valve a pretty standard practice?

No I didn't, I set up my sump so that it had the capacity to handle the back flow. I have drilled siphon breaks on the returns in the tank and I check them every cpl months to make sure their clear. I put the check valve in after a month because I got sick of the noise when I hit the feed cycle and the bubbles going in to the dt when it started back up.

If lifereef makes their skimmers as well as their HOB/siphon overflows then id imagine its a pretty good skimmer. People go absolutely nutty for the lifereef siphon overflows.

I truly think their build quality is amazing and Jeff (the owner) has always answered my questions when I've email him. if you end up calling him he will talk your ear off, but he will spend the time to help you make the rite choice for your setup.Here is a good thread on reef central.

Alot of articles i have read recently seem to conclude that a slower flow thru the sump works better than a quick flow. Do you find that your skimmer works better on high or low flow?

Interesting, I've always thought it was best to match the flow thru the sump to the flow of the skimmer, and a slower flow thru a refuge. would you mind linking some of these articles please.

How did you setup your baffles? Would be very interested to see how you did it. I was going to get some sheets of acryllic to do mine after the move.

I'll upload a pdf of the cad drawing I did and a pic of it when I'm at work tomorrow morning for you to look at. With that size of sump I would suggest 1/4" (6mm) glass for the baffles. I'm not a big fan of mixing acrylic with glass.

your are welcome to come and look at my setup any time just shoot me a pm.

 

[Josh]

Those are all great skimmers, the thing that pushed me to the LR is that most of the other companies produce tech for a couple of years then it becomes obsolete and you can't get parts for it, build quality, ease of use and reliability were high on my list. not how much $ was spent on marketing. @Sewerat is another good person to talk to about this, he went to LR due to parts and pumps becoming obsolete. All skimmers no matter the type have a very similar capacity to remove +-35% of the TOC.

Yup when i was heavily researching what overflow i wanted to use on my BC29, i found and read quite a bit about lifereef as a company. Im definately sold on them however getting it across the border with these exchange rates is pretty brutal. That being said i appreciate the lead on the skimmer, if nighthawk sells his tank hes going to let me know about his skimmer, he wants a fair bit for it but same time its in absolute pristine condition so i cant blame him. [/QUOTE]

No I didn't, I set up my sump so that it had the capacity to handle the back flow. I have drilled siphon breaks on the returns in the tank and I check them every cpl months to make sure their clear. I put the check valve in after a month because I got sick of the noise when I hit the feed cycle and the bubbles going in to the dt when it started back up.

I truly think their build quality is amazing and Jeff (the owner) has always answered my questions when I've email him. if you end up calling him he will talk your ear off, but he will spend the time to help you make the rite choice for your setup.Here is a good thread on reef central.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2399643

Hahaha yea that thread is a nice read (been thru it). I TRY to do a fair bit of reading on my own before i start to ask questions, nothing pisses people off more than just wanting them to do all the work for you.

Interesting, I've always thought it was best to match the flow thru the sump to the flow of the skimmer, and a slower flow thru a refuge. would you mind linking some of these articles please.

Now that you mention this im fairly sure they were talking about it being a refuge. I was planning on having a fairly simple sump, a high amount of liverock with a section for chaeto. Maybe eventually ill try to seed some mangroves onto the liverock once things are running a bit better.

I'll upload a pdf of the cad drawing I did and a pic of it when I'm at work tomorrow morning for you to look at. With that size of sump I would suggest 1/4" (6mm) glass for the baffles. I'm not a big fan of mixing acrylic with glass.

Awesome! love me cad drawings. I was just going to go acrylic for ease, i have read that the sealant you use on acrylic is much different than the sealant you use on glass, is that why its difficult mixing them? They usually bind to either 1 or the other? Did you have the glass custom cut for you by a company?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Josh]

Basically what i was looking at, since the tank is fairly wide i can put all 4 of my drains into the same filter sock (thinking 6"-7") may split into 2x4" socks and split them up 2/sock
Skimmer would be in same section except not to the side of it more towards the front of the tank. Should be wide enough for both. 2nd section is going to be as big as i can make it. With as much liverock and macro i can logically fit. Return section isnt going to be huge. Will have some my additives (carbon/gfo) in the baffles to start. Currently using my reactor as a DIY refugium however once my biocube gets its tune-up ill be able to setup a proper gfo reactor. I beleive it has a maxijet 1200 on it currently. Do you guys use a seperate pump for the GFO reactors and just take the supply and pipe the return just into the refugium? Or do you guys just tie it into the return line. Would think seperate pump just so u can isolate flow for spot feeding etc etc.

 

[AdInfinitum]

+1 to glass baffles in a glass sump...
+1 to lower flow through rates in your sump being superior even if you are not doing a fuge. Actually if you are doing a fuge, it is best to have it independent of the main flow through area of the sump, fed with a much slower controlled feed.

 

[shamous113]

I've attached the cad and a picture.

I was just going to go acrylic for ease, i have read that the sealant you use on acrylic is much different than the sealant you use on glass, is that why its difficult mixing them? They usually bind to either 1 or the other? Did you have the glass custom cut for you by a company?

Silicone (GE SCS1200) doesn't adhere to acrylic with the same strength that it does glass. the other thing to note is that acrylic expands when exposed to water, this has potential to apply extra forces to a glass tank that have the potential to cause a failure. The quote below is from RocketEngineer on reef central found in this thread, The glass for my sump wasn't that much in the grand scheme of the build. i got it from KWglass here's what it cost me, all glass was polished 4 sides and 6mm thick 13”x22 7/8” – 2pc - $22.85 each + HST, 12”x 22 7/8” – 2pc - $22.85 each + HST


"
"ACRYLITE FF sheet also absorbs water when exposed to high relative humidities resulting in an expansion of the sheet. At relative humidities of 100%, 80% and 60%, the dimensional changes are 0.3%, 0.2% and 0.1 % respectively."

So, think about that for a moment. The vendor of the material claims a 0.3% expansion of the sheet at 100% relative humidity (a.k.a. immersion). That means for a baffle 10" long, that sheet will expand 0.030" Or ~1/32".

Now, lets figure out what kind of force that would cause:

Y=(F*L)/(A*DeltaL) where:
Y=Young's Modulus (400,000psi for acrylic)
F=Force (lbs)
L= Length (baffle length = 10")
A = Area (Assume 10"X 0.25")
DeltaL = Change in length (0.030")

Rework the equation:

F = (Y*A*DeltaL)/L = 3000#s

That's right. 1.5 TONS of force are pushing on the inside surface of that pane of glass due to expansion of the acrylic.......... And its right in the middle of the glass along a very narrow region.

The moral of the story is don't mix materials when the ends are constrained."

 

[shamous113]

A few other thoughts regarding your build, Your going to have a difficult time balancing 2 corner overflows with the amount of siphon that your going to create with 8' of drop, I'm running 1.5"dia for my main drain (bean animal setup) and the valve is only 20% open at 1300gph. Regarding electrical I'd suggest 3 new 15A circuits in in your fish room consisting of a gfi plug followed by 2 regular plugs. I use 2 circuits for for my dt and 1 circuit for qt and frag tanks.

 

[Josh]

Wow OK. I knew acrylic expanded but I did not expect that. Awesome advice. In college I once had to calculate that exact same force question except for a bridge with steel and using temp change not %rh

This probably explains why I've seen a ton of acrylic diy sump builds that have bowed.

Also have a college electrical degree. Plan is to run them off a gfi. Was only planning on splitting my DT and sump with their own circuits. Might have to do some thinking about this more. Apprecite the warning. Don't think I'd ever use a non gfi. Esp since I have in tank electrical with my pumps. Rather trip a gfi than shock the tank.

I think you have defiantly sold me on getting some glass cut. When you measured for your glass how tight did you have it. Think 1/4" smaller will work? That's 1/8 on both sides. Should be able to fit that with some silicone fairly easily.

 

[Josh]

I haven't purchased my tank yet. Are you suggesting I look into a single centre overflow. Or can I gate valve both my drain lines to control flow?

My drop might not be exactly 8 feet. I'm going through the wall. Which behind is my crawl space/furnace room. With the stand on the other unit it may only be 5ft head.

 

[shamous113]

after talking to the glass supplier I went 1/8" smaller figuring that the polishing would make it a bit smaller. in the end the pcs were 1/16" smaller then what I ordered, som companies cut to exact size then polish others add extra to accommodate polishing.

aquascaping wise the single overflow will allow more flexibility IMHO. I know @Salty Cracker set his up with two back mounted overflows. I myself like the single overflow with the ba setup , I did my tank with a c2c overflow and a external drain (see pdf). you'll never have a flood due to a snail getting caught in the main line....Ive had a Mexican turbo go for a ride once...

 

[Salty Cracker]

Yes I went with the dual overflows just for redundancy. You only need to get one call whilst in Mexico that says "hey the floor is soaked and the tank is only 3/4 full, so I poured water from those buckets in to top it up" to make you take redundancy a whole lot more seriously

My setup is a tad finicky, since the silence of the system is dependent on two separate valves being absolutely perfectly set, but 99% of the time it's silent, and when it's not usually something needs a cleaning.

 

[Josh]

I get this feeling the tank I hAve in mind comes with 2. Do you Think it''s an option to set 1 of the corners to entire be emergency drain. So for example left side has a single drain and an emergency. Then the other overeflow is both emergency.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Heh, no idea, I would think that each overflow would also have a return line in it? (my old ones did). If so, then it would likely be tough to set up, but who knows.

 

[shamous113]

@Josh have you already bought a used dt or are you thinking new for your dt? how many sides is it going to be visible from?