Miracles Tank Quote.... Missing Info!

[Quartapound]

Hey guys,

I've been emailing Miracles back and forth for the past week or two trying to iron out details on a tank quote... And I'm not sure I'm any further ahead than when I started.

I've been having some trouble getting the information I need, and the questions I have answered.

Here's a small transcript of our conversation, maybe someone can point out if I'm missing something obvious.

From:Me
To: Miracles

interested in getting quotes for an aquarium build.
one is from your standard list (although it says 2016 so I'm not sure if prices have changed)
AQR3620 -- 36x36x20 rimless cube
3 sides starphire
3 drilled holes

the other aquarium I'd be interested in a quote on is custom
40"x30"x24"
3 sides starphire (40, 30, 40)
3 drilled holes

Thank you!

​

From:Miracles
To: Me

​

Hello
Fresh or reef? Rimless or eurobraced? Where are you located? We need a
city and zip to request a shipping quotation
Thank you
​

From:Me
To: Miracles

Reef. What is the price difference between rimless/euro? I wasn't sure if it would be an option or necessary depending on the size of tank. Can I get a quote for both?
I was planning to pickup (I m not far from Orangeville.
I was going to install the overflow myself but get the holes drilled by your factory.​

From:Miracles
To: Me

Good morning
All edges machine polished
Tempered bottom with 3 holes
Starphire front and ends
$ 1195.00

42x30x24 option
$ 1185.00

+ HST
Thank you​

From:Me
To: Miracles

Hello,
After some thought and measurements I request some changes/ a new quote if possible.

• reef
• Eurobraced
• 40"x30"x22"
• 3-side Starphire (both 40" panels, one 30" panel)
• 3x holes (they will all be in the upper left corner of one of the 40" panels
• no tempering (if possible)
• pickup from the factory

Thanks!​

From:Miracles
To: Me

Hello

½” glass
$ 995.00

5/8” glass which would be preferable should be $ 1495.00, we will reduce this to $ 1395.00
Thanks again,​

From:Me
To: Miracles

Hi,

Thanks for providing both quotes ... I'd rather not go 5/8 if possible (for cost, weight, etc) and was hoping the eurobracing would help keep glass thickness lower.

looking at your tank price list, the 36x36 cubes are listed at 1/2 inch, and they're rimless...? Is the 1/2" at risk of distortion at 40"... even with eurobrace? Could (or should) we bump the numbers slightly to make 1/2inch more 'adequate' ...or is it safe as is?​

.....Can anybody shed some light on glass thickness/eurobracing?

I feel like the more questions I ask, the fewer answers I get!

• the cube I ask for a quote on(the first quote)-- AQR3620 --why did they quote it with the bottom tempered?
• why did he change the measurement from 40x30x24 to 42x30x24 on the custom tank?
• did he quote the custom as rimless?
• he asked fresh or reef... why would it matter?

....Instead of trying to get all these questions answered, I decided to 'start from scratch' and ask for a new quote (seemed easier).

The new tank that's quoted (for 1/2" and 5/8") gave me some questions too.

1. does it REALLY need 5/8"? ... without tank building knowledge, I compare it to their 2016 tank price list.... which states 36x36x24 RIMLESS cubes are only 1/2" glass... my custom quote is 6 inches shorter than that on one side, and 4 inches longer on the other.... AND eurobraced...
2. if it really DID need 5/8" ... then the eurobrace would be pointless extra $$.
3. when he said 5/8" was preferable, at $1495.... It leads me to believe the tank quoted is basically the same as my first quote, just with the eurobrace (eurobracing = $300 on this tank)
4. I thought the whole point of eurobracing was to eliminate the need for thicker glass or standard black plastic bracing?

I'm not super impressed with the information (or lack there of) I've gotten so far. Not sure if I'd get further over the phone or in person...


....Do I have any other options? Miracles is the only manufacturer I've reached out to.



Thanks guys

 

[bugger]

They made some tanks with thinner glass and they failed/leaked thats why they want you to buy thicker glass

 

[Quartapound]

I also forgot to mention that I was surprised how high the very first quote was... (the ARQ3620 $645 -- 36x36x20 1/2" Rimless, 3 sides starphire 3x$85, holes 3x$25).... taken from the 2016 price guide they have posted (should be pretty close) totals $975. they quoted $1195... and added tempering? (~$220? for tempering bottom? and why?)

 

[shamous113]

Tempering the glass will make it 4-5 x stronger. I'm wondering if they have had problems with btm panels with holes drilled in it cracking on rimless tanksso they automaticaly add tempering.

 

[Quartapound]

Tempering the glass will make it 4-5 x stronger. I'm wondering if they have had problems with btm panels with holes drilled in it cracking on rimless tanksso they automaticaly add tempering.

That would make sense.

I don't want the holes in the bottom panel though... Sounds like he assumed that's where they were going.


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[thehvacman]

You can’t drill tempered glass, it wil break into a billion pieces. They probably picked tempered for the bottom because you don’t want it drilled.
Just build your own tank its way cheaper.

 

[jeffopentax]

Sounds like communication isn’t their strong point. I’d be hesitant to go any further with them. Could try Concept Aquariums, though being in calgary you’d have to pay freight. I know at least one member here bought from them and was very impressed. Here’s an old post from canreef
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=102302


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[TORX]

I waited to reply to re read everything. They never started 1/2" was bad, just that 5/8" would be better. They tend to over build their tanks, which is 100% a good thing. You are right on the cusp of needing thicker glass. I would highly suggest taking the 5/8". Their emails seem pretty clear to me. Your first messages didn't state needed details such as hole location and what type of overflow you would be installing plus the other questions they had. Your second quote request was much more detailed and they provided a clear to the point answer. Pricing is in line for tanks that size being custom.

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[TORX]

Keep in mind that technically a reef tank is also different then a freshwater tank build. Freshwater tanks do not endure the same stresses through the constant pounding of circulation pumps and wave makers. Do the 5/8".

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[Quartapound]

This is the reply I got back this morning.

Good morning,


We could add starphire euro to the ½” version, this would add $ 135.00


This is for a 40x30x22” high


Thank you

...... I had already asked for this tank to be eurobraced...

I don't get it.

I'm ready to give up and stick with my 45G. Lol.

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[TORX]

Yup. True enough. That was in your quote

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[shamous113]

You can’t drill tempered glass, it wil break into a billion pieces. They probably picked tempered for the bottom because you don’t want it drilled.

all of the cutting, drilling and polishing is done prior to tempering. By tempering the bottom panel it allows tank manufactures to use thinner glass because of the increase in strength.

 

[Nonuser]

NAFB make custom tanks, I heard some people like them others not so much. Also that Carl dude from Carls Aquarium can get a custom tank make I think.

 

[shamous113]

@Josh has someone building him a tank,I can remember who though.

 

[Quartapound]

To further add to the confusion, ...if he said they can add eurobrace to the 1/2" for $135... It would lead me to believe that the 5/8" quote (for 40x30x22) at $1495 was also for rimless...(maybe?).... Which makes no sense, because he first quoted me a 42x30x24 for $1185(rimless, I think... No idea what thickness he used for that one).


It's almost laughable how confusing this communication has been.

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[Matt1997]

To me the reply’s seem pretty clear as well. I have had a few tanks from miracles and I can back up their quality. My old neighbor used to be the owner of the company that supplied their glass. I have built a few tanks myself and 1/2” glass is good for a rimless tank up to 24” height at 36” even 40” length. Even 48” length is ok. After you pass 48” length or 24” height you would want to move up in thickness. 5/8” or 3/4” glass. A friend of mine picked up a 600 gallon rimless glass 96x48x32 that used 1” glass. For rimless tanks thicker glass is always better and that’s why miracles suggests the thicker glass. It seems you are against using thicker glass because of the added weight instead of the added strength (not my personal preference). Either way you will be using 2 or 3 people to move this tank. With euro bracing you could drastically decrease the thickness requirement. Your 40x30x24 could be made with 3/8” glass eurobraced but this is a company that guarantees for life (I believe they still do) so they will recommend the thicker material. Your questions of if 1/2” is safe or will it distort is basically answered in the reply. They will not quote you for an unsafe thickness, they will quote you for safe thicknesses but also their recommendation. I would see if their warranty changes from 1/2” to 5/8” material. Maybe one is guaranteed for 3 years the other for life. I do remember there being something about their personal opinion on the tank though in the warranty. As it is custom, if you suggest a 300 gallon of 1/4” material I don’t believe they warranty it but they will build it. The problem with asking 100 question in an email is you will confuse yourself with the 100 replies

 

[Josh]

@Josh has someone building him a tank,I can remember who though.

I PM'd him my experiences on ordering my custom tank already, dont want to ruffle any feathers

 

[Nonuser]

My Jimmies are Rustled

 

[Anne's Man]

I just ordered a tank and stand from Mircales premium price but the best built tank you can buy.
I knew what features we wanted, tank size, number of holes, over flows, type of glass etc.
I asked what thickness of glass that they would recommend.
I found it best to call first and then confirm with an email.

 

[EricTMah]

To be honest here. You've asked them a few times with a few different sizes and styles, rimless and euro braced. With no concrete commitment to any of the quotes provided to you. At this point miracles is probably thinking that you're just kicking tires, and just wasting their time. That's probably why they haven't given you much details on their quotes. Quotes take time, and that time takes them away from doing other business.

I personally would decide on one size tank, one style(rimless or euro) and send them more detailed information on what you're looking for. Like thickness, how many holes, and hole location. You'll probably get a much better quote this way and probably better communication with them.

Like any other business. If you constantly change your mind and keep requesting different quotes, they're probably getting annoyed and not thinking that you're serious.

Just my thoughts on this.