Salty's "new" 125

Salty Cracker · Aug 16, 2017

I don't think so because I've been doing 5 gallons per day for almost a month AND had the dosers running, and numbers were still low. So I need to up the dosing of alk/calc/mg quite a bit, and ease off a bit on the water changes. I never used to do huge water changes when things were at their peak (I did 15 gallons per week all at once), but I had a different dosing schedule (I re-did it for this tank because there was no sps really in it at the time).

Salty Cracker · Aug 16, 2017

Nonuser said:
I'm interested in the Triton method that BRS is doing. No water changes just adding the trace elements back.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...160-to-the-triton-method-52-weeks-of-reefing/

Looks like there is a bit more to it than that, it reminds me a bit of the early days of the berlin method, where guys were having great success, but eventually failed.

It would be awesome if there was an all-in-one additive that did all the trace elements, but they are in the salt mix, so at the end of the day, water changes work. I plan to up my additives, and ease off on the water changes, but I can't see going to a system like they're showing (I'm not a fan of chaeto at alllll).

Nonuser · Aug 16, 2017

They have a Triton product "other methods" that works without chaeto's or fuge

Salty Cracker · Aug 16, 2017

Nonuser said:
They have a Triton product that works without chaeto's or fuge

Ah, I thought they opened up the sump to make a bigger fuge and more chaeto.

I've run the course of taking an absolutely hideous tank that was thick with slime and phosphate, turn it into an sps mega-grow-op, and then let it slip due to neglect and then a catastrophic failure (the tank was still fairly good before buddy dumped 5 gallons of freshwater onto everything). When I was at the peak, using the same substrate, rock etc, I would classify the tank as one of the best in the region. I mean if you can get nice comments from DV and get jroovers to come over and take pics, you're doing something right. At the time I was testing religiously, but not making any drastic changes (didn't have to, everything was pretty good). I quit testing because it seemed to be running on autopilot, but evidently not. Comparing my "peak" sps to the ones I had when I broke the tank down is kind of depressing, but everything is in place here to succeed again.

Deep sand bed, 2 part and GFO. Recipe for great sps

Hong · Aug 16, 2017

Would you elaborate more on the failed berlin method? Was it the build up of phosphate over time that would cause a tank to crash?

Was the 5 gallon bath the beginning or the end leading to the catastrophic failure. Tank crashes scare me...

Salty Cracker · Aug 16, 2017

I believe the problem with the berlin method (and I do think with this new proposed method) was neglect and lack of husbandry. A pure berlin has liverock and bare bottom. I rely on the DSB for aerobic and anaerobic bacteria (you should have smelled the substrate that haven't been disturbed when I broke down my tank!), so I only vacuum the front part of it, pull out some and replace with new every so often (maybe a bag every 2 years or so). When you run berlin, if you do anything like forget to do a water change, or forget to empty the skimmer, there is no buffer except the rock, and things can change too quickly.

My crash was a flood/overflow which knocked out the GFCI, while I was on vacation in Mexico. I had dual drains and both failed at the same time (that's why the new tank with 4 overflows!!). The guy looking over the tank for me freaked out at the low water level and water all over the floor so took a bucket of water (that I left to refill the ato), and dumped it into the tank. So 5 gallons of RO/DI water right on top of my best sps, and the power wasn't restored for a couple of days....

So the coral I had left was still alive, but was definitely in shock. To this day a couple of them haven't totally bounced back, and that happened 2 years ago almost. I could just go and try to find new frags, but the challenge is in restoring them

Now the tank has 2x power supplies, 2x large UPS backups, an always on internet connection, 2 wet and 2 dry overflows, and a few other things to make sure it never happens again. As long as there isn't failure to the overflow boxes or the glass itself, I think I'm pretty much bulletproof at this point

Luke. · Aug 16, 2017

Nonuser said:
I'm interested in the Triton method that BRS is doing. No water changes just adding the trace elements back.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...160-to-the-triton-method-52-weeks-of-reefing/

@scubasteve was the best guy I know that had the nicest reef with no wc , just added the elements when needed .

Salty Cracker · Aug 16, 2017

I certainly don't want to say it can't be done, I'm saying that water changes are a pretty easy way to replenish trace elements that you might not even know are being depleted...

Plus, your carbon use would have to be pretty aggressive, or the water would lose a lot of clarity. The white-bucket-test is what I use (new RO/DI in one white pail, and then 5 gallons of freshly removed in the other, look straight down and see if you can tell which is which. I've never been able to achieve a perfect match, but I've come close

derrick orosz · Aug 16, 2017

@Salty Cracker what do you use for test kits ?

Nonuser · Aug 16, 2017

Salty Cracker said:
I certainly don't want to say it can't be done, I'm saying that water changes are a pretty easy way to replenish trace elements that you might not even know are being depleted...

Plus, your carbon use would have to be pretty aggressive, or the water would lose a lot of clarity. The white-bucket-test is what I use (new RO/DI in one white pail, and then 5 gallons of freshly removed in the other, look straight down and see if you can tell which is which. I've never been able to achieve a perfect match, but I've come close

They explain that you must use Carbon/ GFO with this type of system. It only appears to replace the trace elements but does not phosphates or organic smells the same way that a traditional saltwater mix won't prevent them.

So if I understand the product correctly, it replaces water changes and you don't having to buy salt mix ever again.
You use this product as the replacement. You send in samples to the company at certain intervals and they test and send you a detailed report on what you need to do to fix the issues if any.

You carry on doing everything else like you would normally would.it just makes your system more stable because you are dosing trace elements. Not doing a percentage of a water change.

Like the dude in the video explains. If you do a 20% WC you are only adding 20% of trace elements in that 20% of the WC not what may be the correct amount required by your system. Because depending on you corals and what trace elements are being depleted you have to adjust accordingly not just a random percentage of sw mix thinking it will put everything back to the correct percent.

Salty Cracker · Aug 16, 2017

derrick orosz said:
@Salty Cracker what do you use for test kits ?

I use a hanna alk and a hanna phosphorus checker, I have the hanna calcium but it's tough to use. Otherwise I just use Salifert tests. They tend to be very consistent with results, and they usually don't expire as quick as the hanna reagents do.

Salty Cracker · Aug 16, 2017

Nonuser said:
They explain that you must use Carbon/ GFO with this type of system. It only appears to replace the trace elements but does not phosphates or organic smells the same way that a traditional saltwater mix won't prevent them.

So if I understand the product correctly, it replaces water changes and you don't having to buy salt mix ever again.
You use this product as the replacement. You send in samples to the company at certain intervals and they test and send you a detailed report on what you need to do to fix the issues if any.

You carry on doing everything else like you would normally would.it just makes your system more stable because you are dosing trace elements. Not doing a percentage of a water change.

Like the dude in the video explains. If you do a 20% WC you are only adding 20% of trace elements in that 20% of the WC not what may be the correct amount required by your system. Because depending on you corals and what trace elements are being depleted you have to adjust accordingly not just a random percentage of sw mix thinking it will put everything back to the correct percent.

Well I'd like to know someone who does it successfully for a long period with sps. I'm just not sure how you would run an ultra low nutrient system this way, but again, not saying it can't be done, I'm just skeptical of "a new thing someone wants to sell you".

Nonuser · Aug 16, 2017

Salty Cracker said:
Well I'd like to know someone who does it successfully for a long period with sps. I'm just not sure how you would run an ultra low nutrient system this way, but again, not saying it can't be done, I'm just skeptical of "a new thing someone wants to sell you".

For sure, that's why I'm following along with the video thread. They build a system from the ground up using the best of the best showing off some impressive equipment that they sell on their site "Smart" and they have had it up and going for two years. They are now switching from zeolite/zeovit system to this Tridon system and will show the results.

jroovers · Aug 18, 2017

Salty Cracker said:
I've run the course of taking an absolutely hideous tank that was thick with slime and phosphate, turn it into an sps mega-grow-op, and then let it slip due to neglect and then a catastrophic failure (the tank was still fairly good before buddy dumped 5 gallons of freshwater onto everything). When I was at the peak, using the same substrate, rock etc, I would classify the tank as one of the best in the region. I mean if you can get nice comments from DV and get jroovers to come over and take pics, you're doing something right. At the time I was testing religiously, but not making any drastic changes (didn't have to, everything was pretty good). I quit testing because it seemed to be running on autopilot, but evidently not. Comparing my "peak" sps to the ones I had when I broke the tank down is kind of depressing, but everything is in place here to succeed again.

Your past tank was indeed fantastic, at lest the few times I saw it - despite some of us trying to convince you that LEDS can't grow SPS, you stubbornly insisted the opposite lol...

The one thing I've learned from my new tank is that past success can be difficult to replicate, even when seemingly the new set-up is the same as the old... I think there is a lot to be said with allowing the system to mature, and having a heavy, heavy dose of patience. Sounds like you've got all the pieces in place, and just a matter of time before you get everything tweaked and it takes off.

Looking forward to seeing it in person some time soon!

Salty Cracker · Aug 18, 2017

jroovers said:
Your past tank was indeed fantastic, at lest the few times I saw it - despite some of us trying to convince you that LEDS can't grow SPS, you stubbornly insisted the opposite lol...

The one thing I've learned from my new tank is that past success can be difficult to replicate, even when seemingly the new set-up is the same as the old... I think there is a lot to be said with allowing the system to mature, and having a heavy, heavy dose of patience. Sounds like you've got all the pieces in place, and just a matter of time before you get everything tweaked and it takes off. Looking forward to seeing it in person some time soon!

Patience is indeed the best/hardest piece of the pie. I am still anticipating the one problem that I never did find the cause to: dinos. I struggled with them on and off for a year, until they just worked themselves out somehow. That said, except for the very rare appearance of a tiny aiptasia (which instantly gets nuked), I don't seem to have any of the pesky species I had last time around, so I can hopefully achieve nice colony structures without the constant chemical warfare. I found that I can keep encrusting corals at bay with a barrier of lime paste, I had previously tried to do it with putty, so I am optimistic. I have added 2 tubes of T5 that come on from 7pm-11pm, just for the heck of it, but otherwise it's still just an LED system...

Salty Cracker · Oct 2, 2017

So hoping to have some pics of the tank stand soon, have finally got around to working on it now that the tank is chewing along, but here are some of the "frags" I started with this year, so far.
In my last tank, all of the sps were beige, unless you put only royal blues on them, which made the phosphorescence come to life. This time around I wanted more colour in "white" lights. So these pics are with all the lights on except the T5's. Colours are coming along really well this time around.