Just watched Jake‘s lastest video on reef builders about mixing “sea water” as was shocked that he does not use a RODI but rather a sediment filter followed by 4 carbon blocks and that’s it? says he’s lucky to have good water but when asked in the comments about TDS in the water before and after he simply states that without a membrane (which he does not use) it is the same coming in as going out which is about 200? Almost fell off my chair, why is everyone else in the world so concerned about our RODI systems getting over 1? Yes everyone has different water with who knows what as TDS and chlorinated city water may or may not be worse or better then well water but…. I have well water with very high sediments which measures 700-800 coming in but if the water was IPC tested after using a membrane and no harmful heavy metals were found which TDS of say 20-30 how harmful would that really be? Why use all the expensive DI if you are just removing elements that you may be just adding back in again like say magnesium , iron etc…. just got me thinking after watching that video but I could be way off on this thought lol
TDS
- Thread starter Eggboy
- Start date
A link to the video would definitely help.
There are tons of people who use tap water and other sources. The issue is that the water is always a possibility of failure and you can not rule it out. You could fight for ever trying to resolve and issue when it was the water in the first place. The easiest thing to start with is 0 ppm water and add what you need to that. Running without RODI would be like not knowing what is in your salt. It is a rule of thumb for a stable reef to control what you can. When you say TDS of 20-30 TDS "how harmful would that be" it all depends on what is in that 20-30. Is it calcium and magnesium deposits or copper and heavy metals? Even at that, when using water with copper or other heavy metals it may not show for a year or two. Typically rock and sub straight will absorb certain things. Once the rock is saturated it will start to release it into the water column. That is why most tap water hobbyists are only in it for a few years. It is because they have a random crash and can not figure out the issue. It is also believed to be a cause of what is known as "Old Tank Syndrome".
There are tons of people who use tap water and other sources. The issue is that the water is always a possibility of failure and you can not rule it out. You could fight for ever trying to resolve and issue when it was the water in the first place. The easiest thing to start with is 0 ppm water and add what you need to that. Running without RODI would be like not knowing what is in your salt. It is a rule of thumb for a stable reef to control what you can. When you say TDS of 20-30 TDS "how harmful would that be" it all depends on what is in that 20-30. Is it calcium and magnesium deposits or copper and heavy metals? Even at that, when using water with copper or other heavy metals it may not show for a year or two. Typically rock and sub straight will absorb certain things. Once the rock is saturated it will start to release it into the water column. That is why most tap water hobbyists are only in it for a few years. It is because they have a random crash and can not figure out the issue. It is also believed to be a cause of what is known as "Old Tank Syndrome".
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Location
- Rocky Mountains BC
It's about accumulation. Before people knew better, it was called "old tank syndrome", which luckily now is completely avoidable.
If the water going in isn't absolutely pure, how would you ever know what's going into your tank? Lots of old plumbing has lead, copper, aluminum etc, and that can be part of that 30 TDS. So every time you change water you are putting trace particles of toxic matter into the tank, doesn't cause a problem until it reaches that tipping point where all your sps RTN overnight, and you have no idea what's happened. Like I said, we just know better now, and after 2+ decades of reefkeeping, I've seen LOTS of "oh I just use well water" guys have a mega crash, and lose a fortune in corals an livestock, to save the few pennies per gallon worth of DI resin?
If the water going in isn't absolutely pure, how would you ever know what's going into your tank? Lots of old plumbing has lead, copper, aluminum etc, and that can be part of that 30 TDS. So every time you change water you are putting trace particles of toxic matter into the tank, doesn't cause a problem until it reaches that tipping point where all your sps RTN overnight, and you have no idea what's happened. Like I said, we just know better now, and after 2+ decades of reefkeeping, I've seen LOTS of "oh I just use well water" guys have a mega crash, and lose a fortune in corals an livestock, to save the few pennies per gallon worth of DI resin?
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Location
- Rocky Mountains BC
Lol, Torx beat me to it.
I think I found the video. Did you also note all the algae in the fresh water storage tank as well as how disgusting the filter sock is on the salt water tank plus the algae in the salt water tank? All that is fine if you have the proper mechanical or natural filtration in the tank to care for all that crap.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Location
- Rocky Mountains BC
Yeah watched it, and sorry I'll stick with my double membrane, pre-mid-post filters, and my 2x DI stages. Takes a year to do 50 gallons, but everything lasts for ages, and I never read more than 0TDS, even when the water sits for long periods.
TDS is measured in PPM. 8 TDS is 8 PPM (Parts per Million). That in mind I think it is anything over 0.25ppm of copper will hurt fish. That is only 1 of hundreds of things that can be in the water which is why people strive for 0ppm.
That 8tds could be good minerals or could be something that will lead to a complete and uncontrollable tank crash in the future. It will taint all your rock as well so future builds will have the same unknown issue unless you throw away all the rock.
We all make compromises and risk vs reward decisions in this hobby. At the end of the day it is your decision if it is worth that risk.
Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk
That 8tds could be good minerals or could be something that will lead to a complete and uncontrollable tank crash in the future. It will taint all your rock as well so future builds will have the same unknown issue unless you throw away all the rock.
We all make compromises and risk vs reward decisions in this hobby. At the end of the day it is your decision if it is worth that risk.
Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Location
- Rocky Mountains BC
I'm actually really curious to see what the TDS rating is on the well water where we're moving to. It's 500' into the center of the rocky mountains, so it'll either be full of dinosaur bones, volcanic ash, or clean as clean can be. The house there only runs one sediment filter, no water softener, so who knows. Just another step towards being sucked back in...although I have to admit to looking forward to being free of the shackles for a bit. Tanks do anchor you to the house.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Location
- Rocky Mountains BC
Very true, and generally I like the person that cuts his own path, tries something different, experiments. BUT once you put it out there as "expert advice", then you have to look at "does it make sense?
In this case, and as torx pointed out, the guy is standing next to a drum full of algae. If it was absolutely pure water there would be nothing for algae to live on, so any that did manage to sprout up would starve pretty quick, but now you're introducing algae to the tank with makeup water, that is just asking for trouble, and unless he has a lab check out his supply once a month, he literally has no idea what he's introducing.
I used to do just tap water, and I had every problem in the book, probably literally. GFO (yes!), and making sure the makeup water is pure got it to the point where I can leave it a week or two, and nothing starts to die off.... hell I have coral still from the start of my tank 18 years ago, AND I have fish that I brought from my old house.... I'll stick with RO/DI
In this case, and as torx pointed out, the guy is standing next to a drum full of algae. If it was absolutely pure water there would be nothing for algae to live on, so any that did manage to sprout up would starve pretty quick, but now you're introducing algae to the tank with makeup water, that is just asking for trouble, and unless he has a lab check out his supply once a month, he literally has no idea what he's introducing.
I used to do just tap water, and I had every problem in the book, probably literally. GFO (yes!), and making sure the makeup water is pure got it to the point where I can leave it a week or two, and nothing starts to die off.... hell I have coral still from the start of my tank 18 years ago, AND I have fish that I brought from my old house.... I'll stick with RO/DI
Agree with everything said and will stick to my RODI water but it made interesting conversation and thought , was just shocked he was doing this , thanks for all the feed back , when I set up my 60 cube almost 2 years ago it’s seen nothing but 0 TDS RODI water but for 8 years before that I ran a biocube using the fridge water dispenser as only water filter with no issues and was able grow beautiful lush turf algae lol , 50 gal tank I had 34 years ago was run off tap water with just a DIY wet/dry filter and old skinny skimmer with wood bubble stone but it is debatable how successful that tank was
ptora
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2021
- Location
- Mississauga, ON
I believe a RODI is an important arsenal in the hobby. Why set yourself up for failure in the first step?
We actually continually cycle our RO/DI water though massive barrels of resin after the water is made from the original unit. We then measure that water with a conductivity meter inside the piping that connects the clean water to the resin barrels. This water continuously goes through the giant DI membrane tanks and then as we need to make salt water we take from continually “purified” fresh water.