What Is The Future Of The Hobby?

[Nonuser]

I was thinking with Aquarium by Designs going out of business and all the small businesses selling online or from their homes and the quasi hobbyist/seller of frags. Not that I see anything wrong with any of these alternatives. But where do you see the hobby going?

Will everything be online? will we only be able to buy from one major box store and the rest will be fellow hobbyists?

Curious to what you think.

 

[TORX]

There will always be a store front. Some places are more saturated then others. Places open and close all the time. That is the circle of business.

I personally shop where ever the deals are. Typically basement sellers though. Less over head means more savings for the customer.

That is the case in all business though. Online is taking over.

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[reef keeper]

Sadly I agree with Torx. I shop where I know the people, and I get good deals from them. When you really need a favour, those to whom you are loyal will repay your patronage.

 

[TORX]

Also, some stores have given the store side a pretty bad name. Lots of un educated employees. That is not a dis to the employees as you can only know so much. Some retailers have been around for a long time, and again, they will come and go. There will always be a store front, sometimes close, sometimes a bit of a drive.

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[Nonuser]

But I am always flabbergasted at the shear amount of corals and fish sold every week in a big city like Toronto. I guess its just everyone within a 100 km radius is traveling there for the product. I can't wait til shipping is more common and people that are selling stuff from different towns will ship their stuff. I know that a round trip to T.O is probably a $50 venture. if the pictures are clear and I can get what I feel is worth the shipping I'm better off buying that way. I made a day of it this past weekend and my purchase was $50 and my gas was about the same, so if I thought about it long enough that purchase cost me $100. This doesn't include all the other costs and hassles of leaving my place.

 

[Nighthawk26]

Stores will either have to adapt, or they will go out of business, or get gobbled up by a bigger corporation. Simple as that. No different than the electronics industry once Future Shop started growing and before Best Buy came in. There were SO many stores. Ones who kept trying to compete on price, simply faded away. Ones who tried to cater to a more specific market did a little better. We are already in a rather specialized hobby, so to me, the only way to differentiate is to REALLY step up customer service.

Another thing is services. How many places sell Neptune product in store. Not many. Certainly not outside the GTA. Now lets think how many people struggle with it. It's setup, etc. When I talk about services, I don't mean tank maintenance, and tank cleaning, etc, etc. Anyone can set that up, and you give another thing that can just be undercut by the next guy. Think duct cleaning, or carpet cleaning. How many posts do you guys see on here for either Radions, or Neptune, or Vortech. How to set them up, how to run them, whats best for them? How many times have you asked how much something grows, or what effect one thing will have if you ad it to the tank, etc?

I think these guys need to think outside the box. How about Buy a Neptune package with any 2 modules, and probes, and get a 1 hour consultation in home. From there, have some chargeable options. Set up this, calibrate that. Although of course every tank is different, I find GENERALLY speaking, people give that as the cop out answer. That there are many things that are more quantifiable than that. Not absolutes, but pretty good guesses. How about while you are at the home, you can see improper use of this or that? Make recommendations for the more suitable product? Perhaps SELL them that product. With so many things MAP priced today, the big guy or online guy isn't hurting them on that stuff. They complain the margins are thin? So find something you can make more margin on. TIME. Chargeable customer service. You offer the customer the complete solution. Maybe it's a big overall picture of whats to be of your system and it's done in stages. Now you've got a repeat and returning customer. Not someone who next time they need something they jump online for it. Going back to the Future Shop examples. These small stores that survived provided a much more enriched experience. Tried to sell things the big box didn't. Which was the COMPLETE solution for the customer. How many times have each of you wished you did something differently the first time? Or didn't buy that crappier item cause you ended up throwing it away and buying the more expensive one later? Those big box stores then of course start adding TV calibration, extended warranty, in home set up, etc, etc. You thin they stay in business and make money making 10-15% margin on TV's?

Anyways, I could go on and on with more specific examples, but you probably get the idea.

 

[reef keeper]

Great post knight rider

 

[Nighthawk26]

Thanks Rif Raff

 

[Nonuser]

well i have never played with an Apex but it sounds like a fancy way of having multiple timers that send power to plugs that turn on and off devices. I am less than impressed with the led light manufacturers than have clumsy interfaces. these products need to come along way to be useful to the average person. The saltwater hobby is akin to ham radio operators a ton of tuning and massaging to get something. BRS video more or less explained that LEDS are useless to 90% of users because no one has an idea how to set one up and what is the best settings. unless you have a par meter and tune the led and know the readings you are just stumbling blindly around trying to find a setting that is pleasing to the eye but has nothing to do with quality coral grows. then there are potions that we mix up and test the water chemistry that may or may not give us accurate reading and half of us have no idea what the hell the reading even mean. Then there are elements that we read online that may or may not solve our problems but we add them and by trial and error have success or major failure.

Maybe The Oculus Rift, a virtual reality system will replace all this mess and we can just put on a pair of goggles and enjoy the tank of our dreams. Not limited to space, budget, cost or experience.
If you're worried about it being to perfect you can program it to have corals breach and algae out breaks as well as your favourite fish jump their death.

 

[Nighthawk26]

You sort of presented my whole point. All the problems that exist that you are aware of, what others would likely possibly agree with. Yet they purchase all those items. All with a giant chasm of misunderstanding and misappropriation. Add your last point about online and the never ending bad advice, and you are left with a giant market of potential customers. For the hobby to evolve, you need to have new people enter it. If it's technology that does this, or advancements away from the old school methods, then there should be a platform to embrace those people into the hobby. If it doesn't evolve, it will die.

How about a store that has seminars. Similar to what you'd see at home depot. How to stain a door, how to tile a floor, etc, etc. These places don't do this for fun. Give a reason for a customer to come to your store. Create interaction. Create a need for your existence. BRS sort of embraces this from an online perspective. Those videos are great. Help a lot of people. As a sales tool, how many people you think watch, and then buy what is shown to them. Nothing stopping a store from doing that. Hands on is something that can never be replaced.

 

[Nonuser]

why not a online forum ?

over 6 years ago I was using the internet to remotely control other peoples computers in other countries. Why can't experts have templates for people to use or customize them and then configure their radion using that persons ecolive account?

if you have a web cam (cheap) why can you not stream your aquarium problems for others to look at and help diagnose?

if I want to sell something (coral) why can I not live stream you a potential buyer a good video feed? You can pay online electronic money transfers in seconds and have items picked up at your door and delivered to that persons door in a day.

why do we not use the community to its full potential?
why are only a few uploading pictures and even fewer videos?

 

[Nighthawk26]

No reason you can't do any of those things. I suppose I was more going in the direction of ways these smaller independent brick and mortars can stay in business.

I cannot speak for everyone, but I don't upload pics of videos because I'm beyond new with all this and I hardly know what I'm doing. Sometimes I feel paralyzed to make another move for fear all the work already gone in will be undone. Personally, I am one for face to face if someone can provide me value and not waste my time. I am far more hands on. I feel like many in this hobby are like that. I say this because there are videos for pretty much everything, yet we still see people on forums and FB groups asking the SAME questions over and over again, with the same answers given. I feel like the new guys, even like myself will eventually find themselves feeling confident with the same answers and start spouting that stuff themselves. Eventually new users come and because someone has a lot of posts, they are given some sort of credibility, and the circle of stupidity continues. This is a new hobby for me, but prior to this, cars, and home theater were forums I'd visit and give a lot more contribution wise.

I guess it's a matter of finding out what the masses prefer in terms of their interaction with the suppliers of their hardware and corals.

 

[reef keeper]

Excellent discussion. I'm a big proponent of reading reading reading and trying to filter out the BS. There's so much misinformation!! I've basically gone old school with my system. I think the basics are the same. Light + stability + flow are the keys to success. I've played with a lot of saltwater toys. And a lot of them are terrible.

Hawk if you need any help let me know. I have a lot of posts HAHAHA

 

[zoomster]

All the points mentioned above are excellent and valid. And this is indeed a good topic.
I too live so far from any major city or town that I have to tack at least $50 in gas onto anything I go to buy so I tend to buy quite a few items when i do go to make the trip worthwhile.
I have been in this hobby for about 20 yrs now and was very much "old school". I also had stuck to mostly "glorified fowlr" reef tanks ( a chalice, a softie and a few zoas ) because of the cost vs my fear of destroying a lot expensive and beautiful corals.
However, about 8 or 10 months ago I decided to try and modernize my tank and jumped into the coral world big time!
Since that time, i have been over-whelmed with trying to learn at an accelerated pace, all the new "must have equipment / additives".
And started to kill my tank with love and kindness! It was starting frustrate me big time. After all the time of being in this hobby i feel a bit like a newb again Lol.
I have helped a bunch of people get started in salt water and now I have found myself needing the help.
I now have an excellent mentor who really knows his stuff, has helped me beyond what I could have expected, has helped me get my tank back into good shape again and saving me a lot of frustration and money in the process! On that note, i would like to give him a big thanks! Not sure if I should mention his name but, he knows who he is!

 

[scubasteve]

unfortunately pretty soon the only coral you will get is aquacultured. Many countries are putting very strict guidlines for the people that can harvest. as for the stores its a tough buisiness if you get a spot people see you then rent is pricey if you go cheap rent its hard to get noticed. a major part is the importing most stores try to give the best deals they can but when you have to buy very pricey permits and pay for all that water weight to be shipped its already expensive not to mention if a connecting flight gets delayed or orders get held at customs you could easily lose a $10 000 shipment. it actually happens alot more than you would think.

Now when you think of sales there is lots of slow time other than around christmas and before summer they dont really see crowds and the overhead is insane. Places like toronto always do better not only do you have the mass population but alot more people with tons of cash to blow where as someone in the tri cities is dealing with the average joes income.

This is why i only go online for things i cant get but for the most part stores can order it if they dont carry something. So i really never shop online. Im not too big on buying from hobbyists since they dont have the overhead i refuse to pay the prices instead i trade that way both are happy and we keep the stores open.

Some of those basement buisnesses are gold mines take bigshow for instance he carries more livestock than most places ive been too with prices that really can only be matched.

We just gotta do what we can to keep all the places near us busy and open

 

[TORX]

Also keep in mind this is just A store closure, not all of them. Stores will continue to open and close. Heck, Joe's One Stop Reef Shop down in chatham has been open 2 years now IIRC. In Chatham, a hole in the wall town. Sometimes stores just move on...there will always be a store front.

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[Pipes]

Having a rough idea of what a retail store pays "per square foot" in Woodstock, I can only imagine what the price is in K-W, or T.O. Home based business doesn't have to compete with this. I'm a home based business 'cause I'm cheap, and this keeps my rates down. Then again, customers don't come to my house. I go to their house/business. I can also write off part of my house expenses. So there are positives and negatives to both. Unfortunately a retail store can't give you the cheap price due to OVERHEAD. If they don't make a profit then they close. The question is....are you willing to pay for the customer service. Like mentioned above, I want the customer service, as opposed to the call center, and personally, I'll pay the bigger price to keep the person employed.

Have you used the self serve checkout at Walmart? I REFUSE ! If I have to pay the same price for the item why would I put people out of work by checking my own stuff out. When you do it, Walmart doesn't have to pay an employee. This means more profit for a multi-billion dollar company, and more unemployment for our city.

Enough ranting.
If we want to have a LFS then we need to buy from them, recommend them and support them. Get to know the employee's names, and greet them when you go in. Chances are, building a customer - employee relationship will get you the deals if you are honest and fair.
But if their customer service sucks then by all means buy on-line and eventually put them out of business.

 

[derrick orosz]

whos up for a joint venture "TFT Reef Shop"... any takers

 

[Nonuser]

I guess i started by saying Aquarium by Design went out of business. But in reality I have pondered the aquarium hobby and the direction it's been heading for a while. There is so many different things people can spend their time and money on and the aquarium hobby is not very large compared to most other hobbies.

People want entertainment, immediate gratification and lets face it this hobby isn't any of those things. It's also messy and can smell and the interaction with the pet is almost no existent. I can't remember how many times I have heard people say fish? why they are boring and you can't pet them and they are not smart...

also there are so many alternatives to different pets, dogs,cats, rats, ferrets, reptiles

I have been to fresh water clubs and most are dying out because there is very limited new blood. Few get into this hobby under 20 and the majority are over 30 probably older.

parents maybe buy a goldfish or a tetra for their kids but its more of an after thought (like a plant for there room) I took my Betta to my office and one lady said don't put the lid on the tank how will it breath? others asked what kind of fish? The most knowledgeable one said well you'll have to dump all the water out every week and fill it up with new stuff right? another wondered how it would survive without food for the weekend.

 

[scubasteve]

@Nonuser just keep inviting the neighbors for drinks lol because my tank is pretty full everybody gets amazed by it. some people didnt even know seahorses were real lmfao (hard to believe but has happened more than once). you would be amazed how many people dont know you can buy and keep coral. alot think its all fake painted plastics or something like the petsmart shelf they almost crap themselves when they realise its all alive and living.

all i know is when people see a nice reef they want one too lol just remind people cubes are great and alot cheaper for people unsure about the hobby. The more people we get hooked the better it will be for all (man i sound like a crack dealer with that last comment lmao)

i also like adding in that im helping conserve rare and sensitive creatures since the oceans are going to crap. then they feel a need to get involved. its already said in our lifetime wild reefs may not exist