Di Resign

[Skim]

Just wondering why are we using DI resin, specially after I read these specs. for your average Membrane.


Aluminum 97-98% Nickel 97-99%
Ammonium 85-95% Nitrate 93-96%
Arsenic 94-96% Phosphate 99+%
Bacteria 99+% Polyphosphate 98-99%
Bicarbonate 95-96% Potassium 92%
Boron 50-70% Pyrogen 99+%
Bromide 93-96% Radioactivity 95-98%
Cadmium 96-98% Radium 97%
Calcium 96-98% Selenium 97%
Chloride 94-95% Silica 85-90%
Chromate 90-98% Silicate 95-97%
Chromium 96-98% Silver 95-97%
Copper 97-99% Sodium 92-98%
Cyanide 90-95% Sulphate 99+%
Ferrocyanide 98-99% Sulphite 96-98%
Fluoride 94-96% Zinc 98-99%
Iron 98-99%
Lead 96-98% Insecticides 97%
Magnesium 96-98% Detergents 97%
Manganese 96-98% Herbicides 97%
Mercury 96-98% Virus 99+%
TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) 95-99% Hardness 93-97%

I think I may stop using DI resin after I run out and see if I can see a difference.

Skim

 

[Pistol]

Ammonia 0% is one reason

 

[TORX]

If you start with nothing in your water then you can eliminate that from the source of an issue. Cyanide...?

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[Skim]

Yes you're right about the Ammonia but a few drops of Prime would take care of that in top up and is way less expensive. I also suspect that the level of Ammonia would so low that your Bio Filter would have no problem converting it. There is probably more Ammonia created in the Aquarium from left over food and fish waste.

 

[Skim]

Yes Cyanide, and it is also is the Ocean and in Ground water all over the world and is 90 to 95% filtered out with the RO membrane.

 

[TORX]

Lots of people run successful tanks with only RO water. Hell, I know a couple amazing tanks running tap and i knew one reefer who ran well water. It all depends what is in your water. RO/DI allows you to eliminate that unknown variable when/if something goes wrong.

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[monizb]

There's a tap that runs down the road from me and it's spring water I have been tempted to try it

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[Neopimp]

DI is overkill...

But it is peace of mind and a way to remove initial water quality as a variable when troubleshooting things.

I run it for that reason.

 

[zoomster]

There's a tap that runs down the road from me and it's spring water I have been tempted to try it

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The problem with "spring water" is you don't know for sure what is in it.
I have TDS tested a few spring waters for fun and found any from 300 - 800 PPM. IMO, The question is......what are those PPM's?

 

[Neopimp]

Spring water TDS will be mostly calcium/magnesium/sodium.... minerals and salts of all sorts.

TDS is such a deceiving measurement. Anything at all that will increase the conductivity of water increases TDS.

ITs used on RODI systems as an indicator of the filters breaking through since pure water is non conductive. Any increase in conductivity (TDS) indicates something getting through the system. If you DI is just breaking through it will be Sodium contributing to the TDS increase, followed by Magnesium, Followed by Calcium, followed by the less desirable ions. And it usually doesn't just increase a little bit(1-2ppm) and hold... once its starts to increase it will continue to increase faster and faster. So if you don't see this continual increase then it most likely is not your resin being exhausted/breaking through.

 

[Pipes]

To appreciate the difference between R.O. and D.I. ( they are two separate processes) you must first understand the process. Considering you are starting with soft iron free water, or water that is "fairly soft",( it will affect the lifespan of your membrane). It is important to remove as much hardness ( calcium & Magnesium) prior to the R.O.
An R.O. will eliminate 99% of the crap in your water; but that is a multi-stage function that must also be broken down.
First you have a sediment filter that takes out small particles of "dirt".
Second filter is a carbon filter, usually a "block". It will remove most chemicals such as chlorine, ammonia, and thus chloramines, etc. Some units have a second carbon filter prior to the membrane.
Third function is the membrane which removes the T.D.S. from the water. Or to simplify, separates the clean from dirty water.
This should leave your T.D.S. at less than 20 P.P.M.

Then you have the option of a D.I. system that will reduce the T.D.S. to 1 or less. D.I. resin is a special resin that when treated with a certain amount of acid can be recharged and reused. At least in a commercial aspect.

So the question becomes will your water changes be affected by a base of 3 - 19 T.D.S., or is it really negligible ?

Keep in mind this is coming from a residential water treatment guy who has been in the business since 2000. AND, I tend to leave out all the extra science mumbo-jumbo, as it causes every ones eyes to glaze over. To make your R.O. last longer, it is best to remove as much of the "crap" as possible prior to the R.O. If you live in the city then most of this is done for you, depending on the source water, but in the country your on your own depending on what your well gives you. So best to know what your starting with.

 

[Nonuser]

Where is the best place to get a unit that is good but not too expensive? I live in Brantford and the water is hard here.

Thanks

 

[Pipes]

Do you have a water softner? I've got 2 used units in my shop that I'm playing with. One is in pieces, but the other is whole. With new filters ( sediment and carbon block) and some tubing, I could do $50 cash. No warranty, but I'd test the TDS for you first. Just need to know how much tubing you need...

A new residential RO would be $500+ with the tap and pressure tank. If your looking for just aquarium use try Kijiji, or a water treatment company. Brantford Water Depot probably wouldn't sell you a used one, but you never know. Bill (owner) is "in it for the $". I sub to the Woodstock Water Depot, so I know their product and service.

 

[Pipes]

There's a tap that runs down the road from me and it's spring water I have been tempted to try it

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Keep in mind that there is more than just water from a spring feed. Like Bacteria and Parasites. People get seriously sick from drinking unsafe water. Some sources are ok, but you never know.

 

[Nonuser]

No water softer, living in an apartment and have been holding of on getting one until I buy a house. But last year was a crazy year to buy a house the prices are ridiculous.

 

[Nighthawk26]

To appreciate the difference between R.O. and D.I. ( they are two separate processes) you must first understand the process. Considering you are starting with soft iron free water, or water that is "fairly soft",( it will affect the lifespan of your membrane). It is important to remove as much hardness ( calcium & Magnesium) prior to the R.O.
An R.O. will eliminate 99% of the crap in your water; but that is a multi-stage function that must also be broken down.
First you have a sediment filter that takes out small particles of "dirt".
Second filter is a carbon filter, usually a "block". It will remove most chemicals such as chlorine, ammonia, and thus chloramines, etc. Some units have a second carbon filter prior to the membrane.
Third function is the membrane which removes the T.D.S. from the water. Or to simplify, separates the clean from dirty water.
This should leave your T.D.S. at less than 20 P.P.M.

Then you have the option of a D.I. system that will reduce the T.D.S. to 1 or less. D.I. resin is a special resin that when treated with a certain amount of acid can be recharged and reused. At least in a commercial aspect.

So the question becomes will your water changes be affected by a base of 3 - 19 T.D.S., or is it really negligible ?

Keep in mind this is coming from a residential water treatment guy who has been in the business since 2000. AND, I tend to leave out all the extra science mumbo-jumbo, as it causes every ones eyes to glaze over. To make your R.O. last longer, it is best to remove as much of the "crap" as possible prior to the R.O. If you live in the city then most of this is done for you, depending on the source water, but in the country your on your own depending on what your well gives you. So best to know what your starting with.

The issue here is TDS does not tell us much. It's not a specific thing. It can be a wide wide range of things.

The membranes rejection rate is simple math. Your water INTO the RO will be X. If you have a 99% rejection rate membrane, if all filters (sediment, carbon, membrane) are working to max efficiency, you will reduce that X by 99%. You can't say output from RO will be X because it's a factor of what came into the RO. For example. If you are 500tds going INTO RO, you will see 5 TDS pre DI.

Now as you use up the various filters, those numbers will rise. Depending what is being filtered will GREATLY have an impact on how quickly those filters are used up. As I've stated before and verified with examples, Chloramines are probably the WORST. THey tear through carbon blocks like you would not believe. BRS has a video series where they tested all sorts of blocks, with rejection rates, and when breakthrough occured. It is a real eye opener. Don't assume when your block says 5000G, you get 5000G out of it. Often not even close. Right away, even if it's not cleaning out a lot of junk and high chloramines (which can easily lower it's lifespan by more than 10 times), you have to look at your RO systems efficiency. Many are 2:1. So if you use 1000G of output water, the filter has processed 3000.

Now as for DI. For me, I spend so much on everything, and read so many variables of what can go wrong, that if I can eliminate a big variable being water impurities, I will. Period. My DI is changed once it hit's 1 TDS. Period. Realize also that DI will burn through FAR faster as higher TDS is put into it. Almost 10 fold. So, DI seeing input water of 3 TDS is being burned up 30 TIMES faster than it is if it's 0.

 

[Nighthawk26]

[QUOTE=". But last year was a crazy year to buy a house the prices are ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

People have been saying this since 2004. This is not going to change anytime soon my friend.

 

[shamous113]

I also think that a lot of people forget about TDS Creep. This kills DI resin quickly

So what is TDS creep? When water sits in the membrane housing for a duration, TDS rises as it wicks out of the membrane. The initial 60 to 90 seconds when the system turns on will send this burst of TDS into the DI resin, or into the sump if it was plumbed directly (without a DI stage to pass through first). Each time the RO system turns on, this occurs. When one is plumbed directly to the tank, the constant on / off process day-in and day-out reduces the membrane's lifespan and efficiency.

Does TDS even matter if I'm getting 0 out of the DI stage? My reply would be "How would you like to save some money?" Membranes work best when they run for longer periods of time instead of short bursts. Some LFS (local fish stores) opt to never turn off their water purification systems to maintain the lowest TDS possible from the constancy of water passing through the membrane(s) at a consistent PSI, choosing instead to doing massive water changes in the selling systems to use up any excess water that would otherwise overflow their storage tanks. As hobbyists, we tend to save anywhere we can, including water usage. We care about every drop of water, what filters cost, and how we can avoid being wasteful.

What's the solution? By installing a tee fitting in the spot between the RO membrane and the DI stage, a short section of tubing with a ball valve is all that is needed to start saving DI resin. This same feature can be used to prolong the usable lifespan of the DI resin, and it literally only takes a minute of your time. When it is time to start making RO/DI water, open up this valve and let it run for 60 seconds or longer to extract the TDS-laden water, then close the valve again. Open the valve after the DI and the water will now be entering the DI stage at the lowest TDS level which avoids wasting the resin. It's that simple.

 

[Nonuser]

[QUOTE=". But last year was a crazy year to buy a house the prices are ridiculous.

People have been saying this since 2004. This is not going to change anytime soon my friend.[/QUOTE]
I'm a old guy. I was a teen in the 80's but people lost houses in this area. Because mortgage rates skyrocketed to near 20%. People walked away from their homes. Uncertain who wil be prez in USA so...

Early 90 new house $50 grand, new car 18,000 average good wage $14 an hour
Early 2000 new house $150,000. New car 21,000 average good wage $20 an hour
Bought my first house 90s 105,000 bought again in when divorced in 2003 145,000 sold in 2012 180,000
Value today? 250,000 +
Oh and wages today good wage $20 average or job if you can find one unskilled labour $12-14

I was making same or more in 91 than I am today 16

 

[Pipes]

Have you ever noticed that the cost of living goes up 5% per year, and we get 2% raises? That's why I re-educated myself and started my own business. Start looking around at the products that come from the states... 10 -50 % more expensive in the last 3 months. Buying materials for my business is frustrating. I'm selling materials for less than it costs to replace them.

AS far as my previous statement regarding TDS of less than 20.... That's NSF ratings for drinking water...DI <1, RO <20, Spring <500.

If you get accustomed to drinking RO water and some one hands you a bottle of spring water, it tastes like drinking from a puddle....IMO.