Discussing Lighting Options for SPS

[jroovers]

Looks like a thread in the classifieds is now locked, no more LED vs. MH/T5 debate over there.  Given that there are varying opinions on different lighting options, probably worthwhile to start a thread on this, and everyone can chime in with their experience and preferences, and indicate what lighting they are currently running, plus any pros/cons.

DIY 4 x 54w T5s (2 Coral +, 2 Aquablue Special)
DIY 2 x 24 Cree Royal Blues

Pros: Best of both worlds of T5s and LEDs; T5s bulb selection can be altered to change tank appearance; growth of coral is more than adequate.
Cons: T5 bulbs need to be replaced every 9 to 12 months.  All RB Crees visually are very blue and not for everyone.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Yeah I think I came off as a dooosh in that thread. 

T5/MH  will work (of course).  If funds were absolutely no option I would be probably 2 or 3 -  250W Metal halide in as blue a bulb as I could get, with RB LED strips.  I would swap out one of the bulbs every 4 months, and I would run a chiller. 

I don't like the look of T5 on their own, but I agree they can look pretty good with a RB 'actinic' strip so that would work.  I have negative feelings towards them because I a) spent a LOT on my fixture, b) spent a LOT on bulbs, c) had poor results (some due to negligence, some due to cheap noname ebay bulbs) and d) had a bad ballast and didn't know it.    I think T5 fixtures should have digital displays that show the output of the ballasts...not sure if that exists or not.


I went with LED because it solved my electrical bill and my heat issues.  Up-front cost was high, but there were guys on RC having good results, and at the time I was mainly lps...so win win.  I wasn't even considering the sps route at that point really.

So when I tweaked and added-on and realized I could get good results with LED, there was no downside.  I think T5 and MH are a LOT more plug and play friendly, but i'm also fairly sure there are plug and play LED systems that work too (along with the MANY that do not).  I think there is a lot more patience involved in LED.  It takes a lot longer for a coral to start to colour up, and that's not acceptable for many. 

LED  PROS:
less heat,
less elec
stable par,
incredibly long life,

LED CONS:
Bugger to get them set up right.
Longer acclimation time for corals.
Listeing to countless "you can't grow sps with LED" and "my ebay led fixture killed my coral so LED sucks!" posts. 


T5/MH PROS:
Plug and play
Easy to find bulbs
industry standard fixtures
Good growth/results
Cheap(ish) startup cost

T5/MH CONS:
Heat,
elec cost,
Spectrum shifts
Short bulb lifespan

As always, this is just my opinion.  I should have said in my original post (LED is superior in every conceivable way except maybe the look of a $$$$ MH setup with kickass bulbs).

 

[theyangman]

Subbed.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Tony, to be honest, if you had sps die, it very likely had little to do with your lights.  I had an awful LED setup when I started, and the coral still grew, it just looked like crap.

 

[theyangman]

Tony, to be honest, if you had sps die, it very likely had little to do with your lights.  I had an awful LED setup when I started, and the coral still grew, it just looked like crap.

I am looking for scapegoats. Leave me alone!

 

[Neopimp]

lol.. let him pin it up to something lol

 

[theyangman]

lol.. let him pin it up to something lol

thank you.

 

[harleymike]

Looks like a thread in the classifieds is now locked, no more LED vs. MH/T5 debate over there.  Given that there are varying opinions on different lighting options, probably worthwhile to start a thread on this, and everyone can chime in with their experience and preferences, and indicate what lighting they are currently running, plus any pros/cons.

DIY 4 x 54w T5s (2 Coral +, 2 Aquablue Special)
DIY 2 x 24 Cree Royal Blues

Pros: Best of both worlds of T5s and LEDs; T5s bulb selection can be altered to change tank appearance; growth of coral is more than adequate.
Cons: T5 bulbs need to be replaced every 9 to 12 months.  All RB Crees visually are very blue and not for everyone.

I have 8 t5 bulbs. Adding a strip (12) of rb led's this week. Maybe 2 strips.
How blue does it make it. I'm running 2 actinic,1 purple plus, 2 coral plus and 3 blue plus t5 bulbs.
Thanks
I was looking for a little more coral color pop.

 

[AdInfinitum]

I am running 3 x 250 watt HQI's (Giesemann Megachrome), I recently switched my old PC Atinics for t5 HO's.  That was a huge improvement in colour and intensity but ideally I would like to use LED for the blues to try to keep the HQI's from washing out the colour so much during the full lighting period.

I prefer the appearance of the point light source HQI's to the very uniform lighting that T5's give although that uniformity has its advantages for coral placement.  I believe that the very intense lighting of the halides may explain why I can get good colour and growth despite my struggles with "old tank syndrome", persistently high nitrates, etc.

It's not rocket science to see that LED is the future, but the narrow spectrum of individual emitters and significant spotlighting effect (not so much visually as spectrally) need to be solved. I would really like to see (cue the free million dollar idea) the results of inverting a full spectrum emitter array and projecting it up into a high grade reflector from a good T5 or halide fixture to blend the spectrum as it is reflected down into the tank.  Some loss of efficiency, but perhaps a more uniform and natural spectrum throughout the tank.  How about a strip of blues and whites pointing down and reds, greens and uv's pointed up into a reflector to blend?

 

[harleymike]

I am running 3 x 250 watt HQI's (Giesemann Megachrome), I recently switched my old PC Atinics for t5 HO's.  That was a huge improvement in colour and intensity but ideally I would like to use LED for the blues to try to keep the HQI's from washing out the colour so much during the full lighting period.

I prefer the appearance of the point light source HQI's to the very uniform lighting that T5's give although that uniformity has its advantages for coral placement.  I believe that the very intense lighting of the halides may explain why I can get good colour and growth despite my struggles with \"old tank syndrome\", persistently high nitrates, etc.

It's not rocket science to see that LED is the future, but the narrow spectrum of individual emitters and significant spotlighting effect (not so much visually as spectrally) need to be solved. I would really like to see (cue the free million dollar idea) the results of inverting a full spectrum emitter array and projecting it up into a high grade reflector from a good T5 or halide fixture to blend the spectrum as it is reflected down into the tank.  Some loss of efficiency, but perhaps a more uniform and natural spectrum throughout the tank.  How about a strip of blues and whites pointing down and reds, greens and uv's pointed up into a reflector to blend?

Pointing up into a reflector. You might have something there.

 

[nexusnight]

I have five hydra units over my 140. I really love these lights as they look great low elec cost long life and great options for tweaking colour. Also having nice ramp times and weather simulations minus the lighting make the tank very realistic to watch. However some sps is doing really well some is still brown and I am not patient lol. All my Lps zoas and soft coral love the light however. My tank is still very young and I expect that is more of the cause of brown sps not colouring backup yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hozer]

In the past few months I went from 3x150 w mh to 4 ai sols. Bills went down and every one of my corals are doing better. Sps growing amazing for me

 

[spyd]

Currently, I run an 8 x 80w ATI Sunpower T5 fixture. The unit can grow anything. My SPS are thriving and so are my LPS. When dealing with SPS, I do think you still get better colour with MH or T5's than just straight LED... I know I will get some heat for that one. lol.

Saying that, I love the look of LED. I am adding 2 strips of Cree RB leds on my T5 fixture to get the colour pop and shimmer that is lacking with straight T5 lighting. I have seen in person many times that LED lighting can grow SPS no problem. Some corals have had exceptional coloration and some looked browned out. I think getting the right spectrum with LEDs are crucial and they are getting on the right path now with the UV leds, etc. The GHL units have a great spectrum but are definitely pricey intitally. When you factor in all the bulb changes on a T5 unit though and electricity consumption, I am sure the payback would be over 5 years or so to upgrade to straight LED for my system. For a smaller tank that would only require 1 unit, it is a no brainer for me. I would require 3 units however... $3000 total. Where my fixture was $800 with lamps and I pay $250 / yr for bulb replacements.

I attempted a Maxpect R420R over my frag tank. I didn't care for it at all. The disco ball effect was way too much for me. It bothered my eyes just looking at the tank for too long. I am definitely excited to get those RB strips going on my lighting though. Finally getting some free time to work on them. They are built and I just need to finish mounting them.

 

[spyd]

In the past few months I went from 3x150 w mh to 4 ai sols. Bills went down and every one of my corals are doing better. Sps growing amazing for me

I don't doubt that at all. 3 x 150w MH isn't nearly enough IMO to grow SPS properly. You would have had greater success with 250's or 400's. But, I agree the power consumption would be very notable and you are definitely pumping out a lot more par with 4 units.

 

[jroovers]

[quote author=jroovers link=topic=7115.msg72380#msg72380 date=1386614266]
Looks like a thread in the classifieds is now locked, no more LED vs. MH/T5 debate over there.  Given that there are varying opinions on different lighting options, probably worthwhile to start a thread on this, and everyone can chime in with their experience and preferences, and indicate what lighting they are currently running, plus any pros/cons.

DIY 4 x 54w T5s (2 Coral +, 2 Aquablue Special)
DIY 2 x 24 Cree Royal Blues

Pros: Best of both worlds of T5s and LEDs; T5s bulb selection can be altered to change tank appearance; growth of coral is more than adequate.
Cons: T5 bulbs need to be replaced every 9 to 12 months.  All RB Crees visually are very blue and not for everyone.

I have 8 t5 bulbs. Adding a strip (12) of rb led's this week. Maybe 2 strips.
How blue does it make it. I'm running 2 actinic,1 purple plus, 2 coral plus and 3 blue plus t5 bulbs.
Thanks
I was looking for a little more coral color pop.
[/quote]

If you are running the two actinic with it, it will potentially make it very blueish-magenta-purple.  When just the RBs are one, it is very very blue.  You may want to swap those actinics an the purple plus out for something like one more coral + and two aquablue specials.  That will give you a better spread of full spectrum lighting, but will likely make your tank look much more bright white when everything is on.  I am running the cree RBs, two coral +, and two aquablue special. 

 

[jroovers]

I am running 3 x 250 watt HQI's (Giesemann Megachrome), I recently switched my old PC Atinics for t5 HO's.  That was a huge improvement in colour and intensity but ideally I would like to use LED for the blues to try to keep the HQI's from washing out the colour so much during the full lighting period.

I prefer the appearance of the point light source HQI's to the very uniform lighting that T5's give although that uniformity has its advantages for coral placement.  I believe that the very intense lighting of the halides may explain why I can get good colour and growth despite my struggles with \"old tank syndrome\", persistently high nitrates, etc.

It's not rocket science to see that LED is the future, but the narrow spectrum of individual emitters and significant spotlighting effect (not so much visually as spectrally) need to be solved. I would really like to see (cue the free million dollar idea) the results of inverting a full spectrum emitter array and projecting it up into a high grade reflector from a good T5 or halide fixture to blend the spectrum as it is reflected down into the tank.  Some loss of efficiency, but perhaps a more uniform and natural spectrum throughout the tank.  How about a strip of blues and whites pointing down and reds, greens and uv's pointed up into a reflector to blend?

You lost me here... can you dumb it down a bit more for me?  You mean have LEDs that are in the red and green spectrum pointing up into a reflector to complement the full spectrum lighting pointing down?

Currently, I run an 8 x 80w ATI Sunpower T5 fixture. The unit can grow anything. My SPS are thriving and so are my LPS. When dealing with SPS, I do think you still get better colour with MH or T5's than just straight LED... I know I will get some heat for that one. lol.

Saying that, I love the look of LED. I am adding 2 strips of Cree RB leds on my T5 fixture to get the colour pop and shimmer that is lacking with straight T5 lighting. I have seen in person many times that LED lighting can grow SPS no problem. Some corals have had exceptional coloration and some looked browned out. I think getting the right spectrum with LEDs are crucial and they are getting on the right path now with the UV leds, etc. The GHL units have a great spectrum but are definitely pricey intitally. When you factor in all the bulb changes on a T5 unit though and electricity consumption, I am sure the payback would be over 5 years or so to upgrade to straight LED for my system. For a smaller tank that would only require 1 unit, it is a no brainer for me. I would require 3 units however... $3000 total. Where my fixture was $800 with lamps and I pay $250 / yr for bulb replacements.

I attempted a Maxpect R420R over my frag tank. I didn't care for it at all. The disco ball effect was way too much for me. It bothered my eyes just looking at the tank for too long. I am definitely excited to get those RB strips going on my lighting though. Finally getting some free time to work on them. They are built and I just need to finish mounting them.

I think you will like that Derek, the RBs certainly do bring out some colours in corals that you can't see with actinic T5s.  If I had to go to a fixture, the ATI sunpower would be high on my list, I almost made the jump to that over my current arrangement. 

 

[Petercar (RIP Dec 2017)]

i went from a 36 inch 6 bulb aquatilife fixture that was sitting on my rimless.  to this  24 inch wide orphek atlantek fixture. with controller  i made a tube steel stand and its stitting 10 off the top of the water and got the stand powder coated flat black  the problem when i went from t5 to led. was the temp of the tank.  the water was always warm  with the t5s.  i find my heater is running a lot now with the leds ..this orphek has the plug in controller. yu set anyway yu want like times and percaentages and all dat and press set and unplug the controller and put it away

 

[Duke]

i started with a 2x 150w DE MH fixture, it gave a nice crisp white color but the heat in the summer was getting stupid, my central air would run like 24/7 since my tank is in the same room as the thermostat is (my living room). i got through 1 summer with those, then added an Actinic t8 to add a bit more pop to the colors. All was good but before the next summer i picked up a 90 led diy kit from someone here that was still waiting to be assembled, i divided the leds over four 4ft anuminum rails and ditched the MH setup but kept the t8 actinic in there for that nice purple glow, it burned out 2 months later so i just removed the whole setup and went 100% led. i keep sps just fine, colors are great, nothings bleached, growth is good enough form me, recently i added 2x T5 (blue+ and purple+) and run the leds a bit dimmer to see if theres any improvements in growth or color, so far i havent noticed anything and plan on removing the T5's before the new year. I run a straight Royal Blue and Cool White setup (with 3 uv leds) there are approximately 60 blues and 30 whites give or take a couple, i have optics on most but not all the leds to give it the look im looking for.  Par is anwhere from 400-600 at and above my rockwork and anywhere from 150-280 on my sandbed depending on where, most of my SPS sit in around 350-500 PAR and do just fine. my schedule is as follows.

10:00AM - Royal Blues ON
12:00AM - White ON
03:00PM - T5 ON
06:30PM - T5 OFF
08:00PM - White OFF
10:00PM - Royal Blue OFF

 

[DerekL]

I too have the Orphek Atlantik and it does have 4 red LEDs and you cannot tell when looking at my tank where they are. I have seen some LEDs that you can see the different coloured LEDs on the sandbed. My fixture has 90 degree optics and I am not sure if this helps blend the colours. I just know that I am happy I don't get that disco ball effect. I will get pictures when I get home from work.

 

[AdInfinitum]

You lost me here... can you dumb it down a bit more for me?  You mean have LEDs that are in the red and green spectrum pointing up into a reflector to complement the full spectrum lighting pointing down?

Sorry, had too many things going in that post...
What I was getting at was to address the two most notable weaknesses with led systems.  The need to expand the spectrum as Glen's development of his lighting has shown and the problem of the spotlighting effect which you experienced while photographing Glen's tank. 

Current attempts to improve the spectrum of led systems for growth, add a few uv's and other colours to the blues and whites but at useable heights those leds will not really provide much coverage, only adding that part of the spectrum to a small area.  So if you shone the leds that are fewer in number than the whites and blues up into a reflector (possibly even a hammered diffuser type) they would spread their addition to the spectrum throughout the tank rather than in a few spotlighted areas.  Although, if you are going to use a reflector to bounce the light to blend and diffuse the spectrum perhaps it would work best to bounce all of it to simulate the uniform, full spectrum light that t5's and halides provide.

Perhaps I am making it more confusing...but I have a vision dammit!