Quarantine Frag Tank

[Boga]

I will set up a frag tank for quarantining new corals. I would like to be able to quarantine easy SPS (for now), LPS, snails, shrimps and new live rock. My target is to keep them in tank (and alive) for at least 8 weeks for observation and to clear possible fish parasites (marine ick, velvet, etc). No fish will be in tank.

I have zero experience with nano tanks so any tips and advices are welcome.

Intended set-up:
- 23 gallon tank, bare bottom
- aprox 20 lbs of live rock (not enough?)
- 50W heater, with separate controller
- Coralife 65 skimmer, in tank
- Eheim 1000 submersible pump for circulation (~267 GPH) - on hand
- Light: one RapidLed PAR38 LED bulb http://www.thefragtank.ca/forum/index.php?topic=3747.0
- one small basket of chaeto
- small bags of carbon and GFO
- NO sump: no room for it. Everything must fit in QT.

 

[MrHermit85]

1 par38? not sure if that would be sufficient for the 36" length of tank and keeping SPS frags, unless you keep your chaeto and softies to the sides and sps centre (IMO). I am planning on the same length fragtank and will be using two PAR38 bulbs.

 

[Boga]

1 par38? not sure if that would be sufficient for the 36\" length of tank and keeping SPS frags, unless you keep your chaeto and softies to the sides and sps centre (IMO). I am planning on the same length fragtank and will be using two PAR38 bulbs.

Yep, you are right, thinking rack area to be like 10x10".

 

[TORX]

Fish are needed in any tank. The bioload is needed for healthy corals, especially if you are running them in there for 8 weeks. A frag tank needs to be set up just like a main, skimmer, heater, flow, lighting, CUC and fish.

 

[Boga]

Fish are needed in any tank. The bioload is needed for healthy corals, especially if you are running them in there for 8 weeks. A frag tank needs to be set up just like a main, skimmer, heater, flow, lighting, CUC and fish.

I agree with you, but one of the intents of this tank is to clear (kill) as much as possible fish parasites (i.e. marine ick). In order to increase the chance of killing the ick, the tank must be fishless for so many weeks. So I have to find another source of bioload, like "feeding" the tank daily small amounts of food, or dosing skimmate from the main tank ( I know it sounds like a crazy idea), or something else.

 

[nexusnight]

I'm not sure but I didn't think corals could transfer ich. If u dip and rise well (blast with a powerhead) wouldn't and stray parasite fish related be removed anyway? Just a thought, could be totally wrong here. I figured a qt process for corals was to eliminate Coral related pests


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[Jewel]

I've had some experience with Nano tanks and in my opinion they're hell, Why do I say that? because less water volume is way harder to sustain than a bigger tank, If you want a Quarantine tank or Frag tank, you've got to cycle it just like any other and the maintenance can over welm people. A Quaranteen is easier because generally you do it for a fish or a Coral or a what ever and when it's gone through the process you can clean the tank.

A Frag tank is different, you gotta cycle it unless you tie it into your system. You need a sump, skimmer, lights, power heads, and you gotta keep it clean.

 

[Jewel]

I'd love to have a Frag tank but in all honesty you're better off having a Frag rack in your display and set-up a simple quarantine tank for when you purchase Fish or Coral or Rock or so on. And keep it simple, no Sand, chaeto, Algae, Cycle it and keep one thing in it at a time or several but at the same time.

 

[Poseidon]

orrrr just tie a frag tank into your existing setup......

 

[reeferkeeper420]

+1 Poseidon.

 

[Boga]

Thank you all for feedback. Please bear with me, even if I am stubborn.

I'm not sure but I didn't think corals could transfer ich. If u dip and rise well (blast with a powerhead) wouldn't and stray parasite fish related be removed anyway? Just a thought, could be totally wrong here. I figured a qt process for corals was to eliminate Coral related pests

I think that corals can be contaminated with ick. Everything that is wet and transferred from a contaminated system can carry ick. Coral dips may or may not remove the ick. If the parasite is in the cyst phase, coral dips are not effective. Also I think that coral dips can not be used for other invertebrates like shrimps and snails, which can also carry ick. You can not treat live rock, which can also carry ick and parasites.

I've had some experience with Nano tanks and in my opinion they're hell, Why do I say that? because less water volume is way harder to sustain than a bigger tank, If you want a Quarantine tank or Frag tank, you've got to cycle it just like any other and the maintenance can over welm people. A Quaranteen is easier because generally you do it for a fish or a Coral or a what ever and when it's gone through the process you can clean the tank.

A Frag tank is different, you gotta cycle it unless you tie it into your system. You need a sump, skimmer, lights, power heads, and you gotta keep it clean.

I realize that it is going to be a hell. My plan is to move some live rock from the refugium, which is connected to the main system, into this new tank. Probably is going to be a mini-cycle. I will do this in a few days and start feeding, so it should cycle in a month. Also I would use 50% water from the main tank to start.

I can not tie it in my system because a tank connected to the main is not really a quarantine. All parasites will travel freely to the main tank and infect everything. I believe that my system is ick free and I want to keep it that way. Or at least try ....

How often would you recommend water changes?
For water changes, would be better to use water from the main tank (clean "dirty water") or newly prepared saltwater?
Is there an optimum temperature for small tanks or same as larger systems?
Same for water chemistry. Any variations from the "normal"?

 

[Jewel]

You would tie in a Frag Tank not a Quarantine tank, A quick way to set up a Quentin is to get an Aqua Clear with a Bio-wheel, run it on your display for 2 weeks then move it over to your Quarantine tank. and run it on that tank, no rock just water and light, Build a plastic tray off the bottom and Voila and a heater.

 

[AdInfinitum]

You would tie in a Frag Tank not a Quarantine tank, A quick way to set up a Quentin is to get an Aqua Clear with a Bio-wheel, run it on your display for 2 weeks then move it over to your Quarantine tank. and run it on that tank, no rock just water and light, Build a plastic tray off the bottom and Voila and a heater.

+1  another way to be prepared to run a qt at any time for as long as necessary is to keep a small canister filter running on your main system filled with just rock rubble or ceramic rings but no floss.  Since there is no real mechanical filtration you don't need to clean it out regularly so it can just run on your system until you need it.  Then just hook it onto your bare bottom qt tank, fill it with tank water and you have a pre-cycled system ready to sustain a moderate bio-load indefinitely.

Incidentally any system that has had no additions for 11 months will be Ich free as marine Ich colonys become non-viable after 10-10.5 months without the addition of fresh genetic material.  There is plenty of hard data to support this but bear in mind that there are also many many other pathogens and conditions that can cause Ich-like symptoms in marine fish that don't follow the Cryptocaryon irritans life cycle or rules.

 

[Jewel]

+1 On the Canister Filter, Boga You could easily tie a Frag Tank into your basement Sump/Fuge, The Quarantine could be done, just keep it simple, I understand being stubborn and wanting to do it your way, Good Luck with it and keep us updated. And remember pictures are nice.

 

[Boga]

........
Incidentally any system that has had no additions for 11 months will be Ich free as marine Ich colonys become non-viable after 10-10.5 months without the addition of fresh genetic material.  There is plenty of hard data to support this but bear in mind that there are also many many other pathogens and conditions that can cause Ich-like symptoms in marine fish that don't follow the Cryptocaryon irritans life cycle or rules.

I remember reading about this few years ago, but now I could not find the link. I think it refers to new additions of Cryptocaryon fresh genetic material.

"11 months" can be achieved and maintained if new additions are properly quarantined, so there is no new ick brought into the system.

 

[davesolo29]

Hmm. Do you have a link to this information Rob?


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[AdInfinitum]

Here is the quote from the original article.


Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.

This was the original reporting of the phenomenon, which (contrary to what I have seen written on the net) was followed up by several studies encompassing multiple methodologies yielding similar results.

I don't know if all of this older data is directly available on the internet but it was published for peer review.  My mother's field of research was reproductive genetics of fish parasites for the Canadian Fisheries Research Board, but most of that pre-internet work is not available online either.

If you ever have an infestation of sea lampreys in your tank....lol

If you were looking for more on the other parasites and conditions that can appear similar but have different life cycles... There are thousands of species of parasites that appear similar but are generally less common since they often have more specific needs for completing their life cycles make them less adaptable and therefore not as ubiquitous as C.irritans.

 

[Boga]

LOL. Now, using few of your keywords, I found it. Thanks so much.

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

 

[Boga]

It has been up and running since March 17th.
Tested water:

• 
  SG=1.0265 (little bit on the high side)
  Temp=78.3 F
  pH=8.3
  dKH=8.5
  Calcium=400
  Nitrates= 2.5 ppm
  Phosphates not detectable ... hmm?

 

[Boga]

Tank is doing well, but not too well. I have added some chaeto in a DIY plastic basket.