Tingle tingle ZAP!

[unibob]

Ok so I have had my cube give my finger a tingle before in the past when I go to feed fish or anything to do with putting finger in tank...well today I went to feed fish and ZAP, my pacemaker skipped a few beats and I ripped hand out.

The tingle before I just figured was salt getting into a cut as that is what it felt like, but this time. It was different, this feels like 120V.  It probably didnt help I was in bare feet, as I am getting ready for work....


my question...are my fish getting zapped? I took out heater to see if cracked and its not, but I left out to try water again, and ZAP, another jolt of voltage! Im going to grab my meter at work tonight and see what im feeling, but in the meantime is it ok for fish?

 

[Neopimp]

Unplug one electrical item at a time until the tingle goes away.  Or the other way around so you only shock yourself onece  not going to harm the fish but not something you should ignore for long. As far as I know

 

[Krazykarl]

Been there before. My heater was cracked. And I had a pump leak voltage. I solved it with a ground probe. No more zap

 

[Petercar (RIP Dec 2017)]

Yu can buy a ground probe at brs. ..but then yu will never know yu have a voltage leak

 

[Salty Cracker]

There is a lot of conversation about grounding probes being more harmful than just taking care of the problem.  With a probe, you have currrent running through the tank, as opposed to just sitting in it. 

Get a voltage tester, put the black probe on the ground in an outlet or on an extension cord.  Put the red in the tank.  When the voltage meter peaks, you are getting a reading (set it to 10V or something like that).  Tuen off or unplug each thing until the voltage drops, almost everything in the water might be putting out a little voltage, but a big zapper you will see right away when you turn it off.

Do you have an atman pump in your system?

 

[unibob]

Atman pump...don't thin so. It is maxi jet 900. I play with hydro everyday, it just is unexpected coming from aquarium. Yea salty I will be measuring voltage with meter when I get home, also will be replacing the gfi as it should be tripped if there's any stray voltage in tank.

 

[Blob-79]

it probally just wasnt enouph voltage to trip your gfi. You said you just got a tingle tingle then a zap...when it turns to a sizzle sizzle bang(you hitting the floor) thats when your gfi should have tripped   :?

myself I wouldnt run a grounding probe...but thats just me. I would prefer to know if something is leaking voltage. I just test every once and awhile.

 

[unibob]

Gfi should trip anything over 16 volts. I will have a number for everyone when I arrive home

 

[Darryl_V]

Gfi should trip anything over 16 volts. I will have a number for everyone when I arrive home

no.  volts is not the flow of electricity.  Its only the potential.  A GFI will trip only when electicity flows.  Flow is registered in amps.  A GFI will trip at around 5mA.

odds are you were feeling less than 5mA or the GFI should have tripped.  Have you tried hitting the test button?

 

[unibob]

Test button trips gfci fine, there is a gfci breaker as well. I understand that voltage isn't the flow. It tingled awhile ago, then stopped and I could have whole arm in tank, but today Zap.

Specs on gfci say anything stray over 16VAC with ANY current it should trip. But why isn't breaker tripping either?

 

[Darryl_V]

That doesnt make any sense.  A GFI is designed to work on residential electricity voltage (although might work otherwise).  Why would it say 16 volts......

 

[unibob]

Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[unibob]

Just spoke with nedco in London. There was a recall on this gfci. Then sensing coil is faulty, not good as I now have 4 others I will have to replace, even though nedco looks after cost.

 

[unibob]

Also asked why the breaker didn't trip and they said , the circuit was never overloaded. It doesn't look for leaks like the outlet does. He told me to run a normal breaker with my new gfci. So will be doing that when I get home.

 

[unibob]

So no zap or even tingle when I get home ?!? I replaced gfci just incase, never popped. So I guess we will see if I wake up in the morning with completely silent cube. Frag tank is on same circuit, but not connected water wise at all.

 

[Reef Hero]

Never put one gfci device protecting another.....as I have sensed you had with the breaker and recept both being gfci ...... Either choose one or the other. It can cause nuisance tripping which I imagine you did not experience. The sad thing is that many gfci receptacles have been recalled over the recent years.....most are now made in china. What classifies a device as class a gfci is that it will trip at no more than 6mA difference hot to neutral within 6ms. I work in construction electrical and have seen many people be zapped and even the circuit breaker blow before the gfci recept. ever trips. Usually the gfci receptacle itself becomes faulty before ever actually operating.....another thing that is confusing to people is that some gfci receptacles have a light that is on when it is not tripped and some that have a light that is only on when it trips. I would be very interested in fact to see how these devices are tested by CSA because I can report first hand that they do not prevent people from being zapped......I have not seen anything fatal or near fatal (knock on wood)..... Just the tingle zapping or small arcing many of us have probably experienced in our life at one time or another.

 

[Reef Hero]

If you do indeed have a class a gfci circuit breaker (not very popular because of price diff. Between breaker and recept. And both are supposed to offer same protection) then it would trip during over current as well as offer class a gfci protection.

 

[unibob]

I'm assuming that the ones that were in my house before (all changed to leviton) were not the best. Nor do I think who wired the house was an electrician, as they had them protecting one another which Nedco said was a no no, as comfirmed by you benner. The breaker is gone now. I am really interested to find out what is leaking, but so far so good.

I am not an electrician, but an electronics engineer.

 

[Reef Hero]

The leakage will be very minor....or you would be dead or seriously injured.....this being said it likely is only occurring at certain times and most of the time probably never..... If you experience it again maybe your gfci will trip.....the grounding probes are a decent idea as this provides a definite and constant path for any current entering the water to be immediately passed thru this probe and then to our house's grounding system. A gfci should operate if this current reaches 6mA and in many cases even 4mA......this amount of current would be extremely fatal to most reef systems. Many times we feel shocks it is much less than even 4mA......think about a static shock.....we feel it but not fatal....a grounding probe should eliminate all shocks in theory because the current will choose the path of less resistance and the probe should create a much better (less resistance) path for the current instead of through us and then to ground.....this brings up the point of the probe being less useful than useful.....if we never feel the current then how do we know it's there until it reaches 6mA which at this point is becoming close to fatal for even humans not to mention our tank. I do not run a ground probe....I figure that either way my tank is doomed whether I feel it or not.....would be nice to feel small tingles and prevent the problem.....of course all the while relying on my gfci!

 

[Poseidon]

i actually have something similar..
when i stick my arm in the tank theres no tingle... but when i touch my shoulder to my light i get a strong tingle....
what does that mean? i figure since u guys all sound like you know what your talking about i may as well ask