Dinoflagellates!

[NanoReef]

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone here has had success getting rid of Dinos. They have been killing my nassarius snails and have also claimed the life of my Shrimp. Two clowns and a trochus are still kicking around.

I have carbon and purigen in the tank, water changes don’t seem to help. All water parameters seem fine.

I have had a look at some of the older threads here but I don’t see any conclusive remedies.

Thank you for your help!


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[EricTMah]

I've had success with eradicating them using these steps;
Daily manual removal by siphoning as much as possible
Reducing nutrients by cutting back feedings, increase skimming (wet skim), changing carbon regularly, using gfo and changing regularly.
Reducing light schedule until under control(usually about 3-4hrs a day)
And raising ph(SLOWLY) to about 8.5-8.6

Here is a good article that explains things in a bit more detail;
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php


S8

 

[Salty Cracker]

I found the only thing that worked was time and patience. Once I stopped trying to "fix" it, they just sort of went away on their own. I had thought they got their fuel from GFO as they use iron and light as part of the biosynthesis, but I've been using GFO non stop for 4 years since the last outbreak so I don't think that's it. I do know the hydrogen peroxide treatment didn't work, and who knows what else it did to the tank. I did have losses, but in the end they just went back into balance. Here's a fairly in-depth look at dinos, it might give some insight https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/62/m062p293.pdf

 

[Matt1997]

Aren’t Dino’s fans of high silicates?

 

[Salty Cracker]

Aren’t Dino’s fans of high silicates?

I have heard they can be, I do know that since I became really really diligent of absolutely "0TDS" in my makeup water (I am currently running 2 DI resin chambers on my RO/DI) I haven't had them back, as it was suggested that perhaps silicates were finding their way into the system via my makeup water (old DI resin), but more or less I improved housekeeping across the board and never saw them again, so personally I can't vouch for silicates being the main culprit.

Then again, I never had dinos when I had a tank that I used to top up with tap water (I sure had HA though), which is why I've been skeptical of silicates being the primary culprit.

 

[NanoReef]

I've had success with eradicating them using these steps;
Daily manual removal by siphoning as much as possible
Reducing nutrients by cutting back feedings, increase skimming (wet skim), changing carbon regularly, using gfo and changing regularly.
Reducing light schedule until under control(usually about 3-4hrs a day)
And raising ph(SLOWLY) to about 8.5-8.6

Here is a good article that explains things in a bit more detail;
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

I will give daily removal a try, I have been turkey basting it off the rocks and sand but it just keeps coming back.
I will reduce my feedings as much as I can as well.
As for wet skimming, I do not have a skimmer in the tank, I should add it is the Fluval Evo 13.5 and I have heard the PS2 skimmer that is compatible with the system is pretty terrible.
I will up my carbon changes to weekly.
I can only run blues for a reduced length each day, hope that also helps.

Would the best way of raising pH be by using baking soda or increasing Ca+?

Thank you for your help Eric!

S8

I found the only thing that worked was time and patience. Once I stopped trying to "fix" it, they just sort of went away on their own. I had thought they got their fuel from GFO as they use iron and light as part of the biosynthesis, but I've been using GFO non stop for 4 years since the last outbreak so I don't think that's it. I do know the hydrogen peroxide treatment didn't work, and who knows what else it did to the tank. I did have losses, but in the end they just went back into balance. Here's a fairly in-depth look at dinos, it might give some insight https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/62/m062p293.pdf

I do not run GFO at the moment. I am hoping to minimize coral loses and I would place them in my larger tank however I am afraid of contaminating my larger system.

I will have a look at the article tonight when I have a bit more time.

Thank you SC!

I have heard they can be, I do know that since I became really really diligent of absolutely "0TDS" in my makeup water (I am currently running 2 DI resin chambers on my RO/DI) I haven't had them back, as it was suggested that perhaps silicates were finding their way into the system via my makeup water (old DI resin), but more or less I improved housekeeping across the board and never saw them again, so personally I can't vouch for silicates being the main culprit.

Then again, I never had dinos when I had a tank that I used to top up with tap water (I sure had HA though), which is why I've been skeptical of silicates being the primary culprit.

I do not believe Silicates are the problem as my water system seems to be running pretty well at the moment. 0TDS as per my testing.


I will read up some more and hopefully kick this issue before it claims more lives.

Thank you again!




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[Salty Cracker]

Dinos are present in all systems (and every ocean) so there is no real worry of cross-contamination, although if your parameters are similar, a large gob of dinos from your one tank could set off a chain reaction in a different tank. I just don't think it would, since they rely on an excess or imbalance to flourish. These are the things that causes 'red tide' in nature. I don't think even the pros understand exactly why there are blooms in the wild...

 

[EricTMah]

Turkey basting isn't removing the problem. All you're doing it blowing it into the water column and causing another outbreak.

Manual removal with a length of airline tubing and siphoning the dynos out of the system is what you need to do. In a 13gal system. I'd recommend about a 1gal wc daily while removing the dynos.

As for your ph. What are your tank parameters right now? Ph, No3, po4, alk, ca and mag

Sometimes a simple air stone can help raise the ph.
Here is a good article on ph
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

But I'd strongly suggest you post up your tank parameters before you begin to raise the ph. It will also help us give better advice with all those numbers listed.

S8

 

[Matt1997]

The way I remove them is with 3/8” tubing and a toothbrush.if it’s on the sandbed just turn over the sandbed.

 

[Mido]

I used Dino Xal with great success in my tank
a friend of mine got it for me from Europe for cheap
but I know ppl who got it though eBay but costly $$$
basically you dose and blackout for almost 5 days , got rid of all algae in my tank not only the dinos

 

[Salty Cracker]

Reportedly it contains the same ingredients as Fauna Marin AlgeaX

I would avoid the use of that at all costs. Probably it will get rid of your dinos, but without taking care of the underlying cause, and who knows what else it would do to your system, I would consider it an absolute-last-resort before ripping your tank apart.

Quick fix "hey I'll sell you some crazy shit that will fix you right up" is cancer to the hobby. Cure the disease, kill the patient.

Of course, that's just my $.02 and I know full well the frustrations of dinos.

 

[NanoReef]

Dinos are present in all systems (and every ocean) so there is no real worry of cross-contamination, although if your parameters are similar, a large gob of dinos from your one tank could set off a chain reaction in a different tank. I just don't think it would, since they rely on an excess or imbalance to flourish. These are the things that causes 'red tide' in nature. I don't think even the pros understand exactly why there are blooms in the wild...

Very interesting, my larger system seems well balanced for now, got some healthy algae growing and I could potentially place my fancier corals there while I deal with my nano.
Nature is pretty awesome and I guess in all cases organisms will take advantage when parameters are favorable.

Turkey basting isn't removing the problem. All you're doing it blowing it into the water column and causing another outbreak.

Manual removal with a length of airline tubing and siphoning the dynos out of the system is what you need to do. In a 13gal system. I'd recommend about a 1gal wc daily while removing the dynos.

As for your ph. What are your tank parameters right now? Ph, No3, po4, alk, ca and mag

Sometimes a simple air stone can help raise the ph.
Here is a good article on ph
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

But I'd strongly suggest you post up your tank parameters before you begin to raise the ph. It will also help us give better advice with all those numbers listed.

S8

I went out and got me some more tubing so I could do this tonight.
Parameters are as follows:
pH 8.1
NO3 25
PO4 0.7
Alk 9dKH
Ca 390
Mg 1200

I was wondering if by adding a small skimmer not only will it help me clear up my water but also raise the pH slightly?

The way I remove them is with 3/8” tubing and a toothbrush.if it’s on the sandbed just turn over the sandbed.

Will get out my toothbrush! Better not confuse it with mine after ( ◠‿◠ )

I used Dino Xal with great success in my tank
a friend of mine got it for me from Europe for cheap
but I know ppl who got it though eBay but costly $$$
basically you dose and blackout for almost 5 days , got rid of all algae in my tank not only the dinos

As Salty mentioned below, I would rather stick with more natural removal and find a balance in the system. But as a last resort I will keep it in the back of my mind.

Reportedly it contains the same ingredients as Fauna Marin AlgeaX

I would avoid the use of that at all costs. Probably it will get rid of your dinos, but without taking care of the underlying cause, and who knows what else it would do to your system, I would consider it an absolute-last-resort before ripping your tank apart.

Quick fix "hey I'll sell you some crazy shit that will fix you right up" is cancer to the hobby. Cure the disease, kill the patient.

Of course, that's just my $.02 and I know full well the frustrations of dinos.

I completely understand and agree with you, thank you for your pennies!

I will be patient and hope for the best as it is with everything in this hobby



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[EricTMah]

I would start with manual removal with water changes and try and get your no3 and po4 down. Bump that mag number to about 1300 too.

I'd start with that before even raising your ph. Seems like an excess of nutrients causing the outbreak.

S8

 

[NanoReef]

Just an update on the Dino issue I had in my tank before. I was thankfully able to save the tank and everything has been great since the beginning of January.

The before pictures:

What did I do to remedy the problem?

First I reduced my photo period and only used my weak blue lights on the Evo about 4 hours a day. This helped to lessen the growth of Dinos from one day to the next.

I did no water changes for 4 weeks, though it might seem like water changes should be the way to go, someone suggested that a “dirty” tank would be beneficial for other algae to grow and outcompete the Dinos. Instead of the water changes, I turkey basted the tank well to suspend the Dinos on the rocks and vacuumed the sand daily. The collected water was “filtered” through an old t-shirt and the water was reintroduced in the tank.

To make sure nitrates didn’t get too crazy high, I cut back on feedings and used purigen. I also replaced a bag of carbon weekly to absorb the toxins from the dying Dinos.

I did this for 3 weeks until I did not see any signs of Dinos. In the last week I performed 3 50% water changes and started increasing my photo period to confirm the Dinos were gone.

Thankfully all my corals survived except for one.

Hopefully this ordeal will help someone else in the future, I can’t guarantee it will work, but this is what worked for me.

FTS after, please excuse the dirty glass!

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[TORX]

Wow. Look at that sand bed. Well done

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[Jynx]

Dino x also works well

 

[Salty Cracker]

Dino x also works well

Actually, the general consensus from those that want their reef tanks to do well in the long run, is that dino/algae x can do more damage than it cures.

The only real way to beat them is to eliminate the unbalance that allowed them to thrive in the first place. Nuking them with chemicals is not how nature does it, and really isn't how we should do it. This forum is here to help hobbyists the best way. Think of us as the anti-AP site (we support the little guy, not the other way around).

Oh and welcome to the site!

 

[Jynx]

Well thank you for the welcome. I had a problem with Dino as well seeing as I am also new to the hobby and didn’t know anyone with a saltwater tank or even that you guys where here to help people like myself when needed help.

 

[Salty Cracker]

We're here to help you have a successful reef tank.

I am very glad you want to contribute, and I do sincerely hope you have a long and successful stay here on the fragtank. I will say that almost guaranteed we can help you get the most out of whatever you are hoping to get out of your tank. We're also really nice guys. It's a good community and I hope you decide to stay and benefit/contribute.

Now let's go back to the post at hand here. Our goal is to make catastrophic tank crashes a thing of the past. A store's goal is to sell you stuff and make a profit. Those two things rarely equate to the same thing. Yes, we all buy lots of stuff from our awesome local fish stores, but quick-fix tank nukes are not one of the things we usually recommend. You have to consider what other effects your actions cause down the road. For example algae X might well wipe out hair algae, but without correcting the environment that let it grow in the first place, all you did was kill a bunch of bacteria and unbalance the ecosystem even worse. The correct thing is to restore balance, as nanoreef did here (and smaller tanks are notoriously harder to bring back in line than larger tanks, so it's a good result). Instead of buying algae-X, consider buying new media for your DI stage, or a better TDS meter, etc. There's LOTS of ways to spend money at the LFS, but quick fixes just aren't it. So again, welcome aboard, and I do hope you have a good stay.