Frustration - <24 hour fish mortality

[Sasha T]

This is regarding my new 60G system, it's been up and running since the end of January. I used dry rock and dry substrate, with RODI water, a slice of shrimp and bottle bacteria to kick things off. Over the past two weeks I've been adding inverts, and I currently have a dozen nassarius snails, a few astreas and half a dozen cowries and "mini" brittle stars (the hitchhiker kind). They all seem to be doing well, inching their way across the glass and rocks or crawling around the macro algae in the refugium. I have a piece of GSP that WAS brown and healthy in my old system, and is now green, healthy and spreading. The rocks are starting to have spots of green film and hair algae. My A/Ni/Na readings are 0/0/24. BUT...

I've tried adding in a tail spot blenny. Twice. In both cases I've drip acclimated them, one for 30 minutes, one for an hour and fifteen. Both times they take to the rockwork and start doing their little "in and out" dance, nipping at the algae. I watch them up until I go to bed and they seem fine. Wake up the next day, and they are on the sandbed. The first time it was suggested that it was "bad luck". Now it's happened a second time...

I'm very frustrated (two trips out of town for two fish). At this point the only thing I can think of is to get a "cheap" marine fish like a chromis, or marine switch a molly to see if they succumb as well, but... So frustrated, especially since my first system went up quicker, with less planning, and no issues at all.

Before I consign another fin friend to an untimely death, any suggestions? From what I've read, having healthy snails discounts most potential toxins due to their smaller bodies, I have the system running with a full macro algae refugium as well as water agitation so a lack of dissolved oxygen seems unlikely. The hour drip acclimation should have eliminated any acclimation issues, I even lowered my salinity to 1.023 for the second try just so it wasn't as big of a jump.

 

[Luke.]

What’s your phosphate level ?

I also started my system with everything “dry” and a pin head size of coraline algae and a bottle of micro7 . I think 3 months after I put water in it I got 2 pj’s start with a hardy fish and the key is it get a healthy fish , In the time I’ve got to where Iam I’ve lost 10 fish . It’s a lot slower when starting from all dry and takes quite a long time for things to stable , I’m a year and 7 months into my build and still struggling with keeping corals

 

[Sasha T]

What’s your phosphate level ?

I also started my system with everything “dry” and a pin head size of coraline algae and a bottle of micro7 . I think 3 months after I put water in it I got 2 pj’s start with a hardy fish and the key is it get a healthy fish , In the time I’ve got to where Iam I’ve lost 10 fish . It’s a lot slower when starting from all dry and takes quite a long time for things to stable , I’m a year and 7 months into my build and still struggling with keeping corals

I haven't tested for phosphates, but I started running carbon and GFO a couple weeks ago when I noticed cloudy water, suspecting the start of a bacterial bloom. The water has been crystal clear since then. I haven't seen anything to suggest elevated phosphates were toxic to fish and not snails, or at least not in concentrations that were maintained through water changes, but that's just where my current research is at.

Re: healthy fish, that was part of the reason I accepted "bad luck" as a possibility, and made a second purchase from the same store. They originally had 20 tailspot blennies (I bought mine when they had 12 left, then when they had 7), some were purchased by staff and according to the fishroom boss, no one has reported losses.

My other 60G system was also started with dry rock and substrate, and had fish and coral added within a month of going wet and I've had no coral deaths (*edit* no deaths that could not be attributed to pests or my own mistakes in placement and feeding), and only 2 fish casualties, one jumped through the cover and became a fish chip on the floor, the other was an adult (much larger than my current) firefish a year after I got it that seemed to be slowing down and bumping into things while still swimming upright before completely disappearing from the tank.

 

[Luke.]

you are running gfo , carbon , and micro algae , in a tank that’s 3 ish months old ? What’s your daily feeding like ? I just wondering if there’s to much of a swing , I haven’t ran gfo on My system yet , was always told its a last resort and more of a bandaid on a under lying problem .. but I’m not saying that has anything to do with the deaths , I find if fish die like that there’s definitely something in the water

 

[Luke.]

Or fish had fluke or ich or something along that even something internal , but you would normally see them acting differently, which you stated they seem fine .. do you have a fish eating monster in your rocks lol

 

[teebone110]

So... your tank is about 6 weeks old? It just might be too early to add any fish if they keep dying. It’s hard to say exactly what it is, however there are biologic processes taking place that might be making the environment toxic to fish. If new additions are literally dying overnight it is probably related to the water?? Maybe let things stabilize a little longer and if you want to add a fish- get a damsel.

 

[Sasha T]

you are running gfo , carbon , and micro algae , in a tank that’s 3 ish months old ? What’s your daily feeding like ? I just wondering if there’s to much of a swing , I haven’t ran gfo on My system yet , was always told its a last resort and more of a bandaid on a under lying problem .. but I’m not saying that has anything to do with the deaths , I find if fish die like that there’s definitely something in the water

So... your tank is about 6 weeks old? It just might be too early to add any fish if they keep dying. It’s hard to say exactly what it is, however there are biologic processes taking place that might be making the environment toxic to fish. If new additions are literally dying overnight it is probably related to the water?? Maybe let things stabilize a little longer and if you want to add a fish- get a damsel.

I guess that's the case (tank's too young). I really expected to see reactions in the snails, starfish or coral if the water quality was poor due to their smaller bodies and general "frailty". I'm currently across the room and can see snails crawling on the glass as well as the open polyps.

I guess rather than being "unlucky" this time, I was "lucky" with the first system and the stars aligned to get that one started in less time without the hitches I'm experiencing now. I'm going to go out and grab new tests and check my water quality for the "main 3" cycle elements, see if maybe my tests are bad/contaminated.

 

[Big_Als_London]

I sent you a pm Sasha, I know its not from my store but I would like to try and help you out.

 

[Manny]

Tests salinity from bag to tank. If fish go from low salinity to higher salinity the fish could suffer from osmotic shock. AkA, quick death.

 

[Sasha T]

Tests salinity from bag to tank. If fish go from low salinity to higher salinity the fish could suffer from osmotic shock. AkA, quick death.

Admittedly I did not test the bag water, but the potential hypo-salinity of the shop's systems was why it was recommended that I do the longer drip acclimation.

*edit - The more I think about it, the more possible it seems. If that's "all" it is, I'm going to be irritated, to put it mildly. Irritated that I didn't check the salinity myself, and irritated that the conditions were THAT different between my tank and the shop and the only warning I got was "drip for an hour, minimum, to obtain a 20:80 ratio of original water to your water". I've bought fish from this location before, and they're all swimming along today.

 

[Jason Bell]

Sorry to hear about your struggles, I find it sad when a fish doesn't make it after the journey they have gone through. I started this new tank with dry rock, more than I want to admit and hours smashing and glueing, I couldn't take it and removed it all replacing with live rock. As was stated maybe as simple as salinity. If your inverts are doing well your tank should be fine for fish.

 

[Copperkills]

Took a quick read, just wanted to add that drip acclimation is more for pH shock than salinity. I wouldn’t worry too much about it being salinity and fyi the tail spot blenny is also known for playing dead when it is stressed. I’m not saying it wasn’t dead, just bear that in mind should you try another.

 

[Sasha T]

Took a quick read, just wanted to add that drip acclimation is more for pH shock than salinity. I wouldn’t worry too much about it being salinity and fyi the tail spot blenny is also known for playing dead when it is stressed. I’m not saying it wasn’t dead, just bear that in mind should you try another.

Thanks for the info. They were 100% dead, snails and pods had moved in on them and had started eating the tasty bits. Between the gas needed to drive to and back from the store, the price of the fish (even though the fishroom gave me 50% off to try again with the second) and the relative rarity of the fish, I don't imagine I'll have a chance to try a third anytime soon. I'm considering putting in a chromis (due to their price and availability) to see if it reacts the same way before I try any other fish on the list. My A/Ni/Na has dropped to 0/0/7 (confirmed with two kits each) without water change, so the tank should most assuredly be cycled, the only cause of such a quick mortality that hasn't been mentioned is something fouling the water, which a chromis would confirm.

 

[dale]

salinity can def be a problem.. some stores will keep their salinity at 1.016 then transferring to 1.025 in a couple hours can cause serious damage to alot of fish.

 

[Sasha T]

I know damsels are one of the more "bulletproof" species, but this little guy came from a 1.015 SG system, had the same acclimation as the tailspots, maintained the same behavior in shop and in my system, but more importantly is still swimming around. Apart from the measurable size difference it isn't acting any differently than the chromis in my other system. I've acclimated sleeper gobies, fire fish, basslets, and cardinals w/o issue, so why the line got drawn at blennies, which are also referred to as "hardy" fish, I have no idea.

Thanks Big_Als_London for helping me out.

 

[Sasha T]

Final update:

I never did end up with a definitive or actionable reason as to why the first two tail spots died. I suspected that with inverts alive in the system any water issues would be tolerable to fish, and the chromis would suggest that was so.

In the end after having the chromis in system for a week late, one night I happened across a post by @SustainableMarine that they had a single tail spot in, and immediately bought it. I came in to pick it up, and spoke to Adam and Brenden about their experience with tail spots/blennies, and they were as stumped as I was.

Bottom line is, I now have a tail spot blenny (pictured above) who seems to be happy having their run of the reef rock, has taken on the striking orange to blue coloration, and happily eats anything I throw in the tank, and while it's still on the shy side I love having it in there. Here's hoping that the "bad luck" I had acquiring it was just all the potential difficulties I avoided setting up the first system coming back all at once.