HI 736-25 Phosphorous Ultra Low Range (ULR) Reagent Lot H 025

[Boga]

I want to make it clear from the beginning. This review is not for the Hanna Checker Phosphorus ULR. It is for the reagent HI 736-25 Lot # H025. It is only for lot 25.

This review is not against any of the dealers that carry Hanna's products. My review is not to boycott Hanna or its dealers. It is to make reefers and dealers aware about this possible defective lot #25.

I purchased this Checker HI736 Phosphorous ULR because I've read good reviews on this forum and many other sites. I also bought a pack of 25 tests HI 736-25, lot # H025, expiring date 02/2016.

I performed multiple tests and nothing made sense. Results were scattered all over. I even tested RODI water (zero TDS) and found high phosphates. I searched on internet and I realized that I am not alone. Many people reported issues with this lot and some forums show that even Hanna (at one point) acknowledged this type of issues. The latest is that "not all the reagents in lot 25 are defective". Some of them are bad, some of them are not.

I wrote to Hanna USA and the tech rep said that "I have not had any complaints on this lot". They directed me to Hanna Instruments Canada. No comments from Hanna Canada, yet. But they were nice and they sent me a new lot at no cost. I received lot # H035, expiring date 07/2016.

Today I did a comparison test between lots H025 and H035. Testing procedure and results are shown down below. You can see that lot 25 is reading higher, consistent with test results from other reefers and Hanna USA. It also show that the results are not consistent, going out of the instrument's accuracy.


1. I used only one vial for all tests. All tests were performed back to back.
2. Collected one glass of saltwater from my sump. All tests were performed from this sample.
3. Clean vial with tap water.
4. Rinse vial in RODI water (zero TDS) for about 15 seconds.
5. Add 10 mL of saltwater.
6. Run tests per Hanna's instructions. All tests were in C2 aprox 2 minutes and 45 seconds
7. Back to point 3 and perform the next test.

Resolution of the instrument is 1 ppb.
Accuracy is +/- 5 ppb.

Phosphorous [ppb]

Lot# H025 Lot# H035
Test 1 | 32 ppb | 0 ppb
Test 2 | 11 ppb | 5 ppb
Test 3 | 27 ppb | 1 ppb

For conversion to Phosphates I used the following formula:
ppt = ppb * 3.066/1000

Phosphates [ppt]

Lot# H025 Lot# H035
Test 1 | 0.098 ppt | 0 ppt
Test 2 | 0.034 ppt | 0.015 ppt
Test 3 | 0.083 ppt | 0.003 ppt


As a conclusion I think that the Phosphorous ULR checker is a good instrument, accurate for reading a low level of phosphorous (phosphates) in marine systems, but stay away from reagent LOT H025. Also I will salute if a new way of adding the reagent into the cuvette is going to be developed by Hanna.

Few references from internet. You can Google "Hanna defective lot 25". More will show up.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/333784-problems-with-hanna-phosphate-and-phosphorus-checkers/page-3
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?p=284244

 

[Reef Hero]

Thanks for the info!
I have two boxes of lot 25 and have exact same issues..... I recently bought a lot 30 and it seems better.....
I wonder if Hanna will send me out some replacement lots also? Can you PM me their contact info?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[unibob]

This is kinda funny because when I contacted hanna about this a few months back, they gave me the excuse, people must not be doing test right. I showed them numerous links to this "bad batch" but they just brushed it off to end user error. I will be contacting them again after reading this.


Thank you Boga for sharing this info.

 

[Reef Hero]

I

This is kinda funny because when I contacted hanna about this a few months back, they gave me the excuse, people must not be doing test right. I showed them numerous links to this \"bad batch\" but they just brushed it off to end user error. I will be contacting them again after reading this.


Thank you Boga for sharing this info.

I wouldn't worry too much about it jerry. Hanna has tainted their image, Atleast to me anyways....
There are so many ways for the reagent to become ruined from Romania to here that for a company to just outright say it is pure end user fault is kind of a kick in the face for me....
There is just way too much evidence that points to bad reagents in the 25 lot that Hanna would definitely not want me to be a juror on this lol. Hanna has already had issues with the all reagent also... And they kinda admitted it.... I have had diff alk reagents from Hanna also and some can be as far as 10ppm or more different from one another. Again, it's a liquid reagent that is not immune to freezing or extreme hot and how do they know what happens exactly from Romania to us.... Just my two cents....and nothing against the dealers of Hanna of course.... Actually in this age I feel bad sometimes for dealers who have to deal with poor products and unhappy customers because of it... I will continue to use Hanna of course but might pick up a phosphate tester too or perhaps the Milwaukee brand... I've been eyeing it for a while now!

 

[unibob]

It can be difficult yes. The part that bothers me is they want me to stand behind there product, yet when I brought the issue up to them the first time was that they sent me replacements in mail. Which yes they did, but they were for expires reagents that came in a kit. 12 were bad (2 kits) they sent 25 replacements tests...which sure is fine and dandy to replace the 12 bad from 2 kits that had expired reagents in it. All of which has nothing to do with lot 025 being a bad batch. It was then that I forwarded the links to people talking about it, then was told "user error" never once did they even say there was a possibly of a bad batch. I mean the thing is testing PPB for under $60...there is only so much to expect.

 

[Reef Hero]

The tester does work very well actually when the reagent is proper. I'm hoping that maybe Adinfinitum can chime in here because he has access to lab equipment and has compared the Hanna checker to lab equipment and the results are amazingly comparable. I still say the powder reagent in the packet is kinda silly and then there's the battery powered idea....do they think majority of reefers are using this checker in the middle of nowhere, where there is no hydro? My guess is that 99.9% of people use it right beside an outlet that we could easily plug into if there was the option.... Again just my two cents but it's users like us and dealers like you jerry who keep companies on their feet and whether they like it or realize it, in the end we are actually providing them with world class product testing that will only help their company in the end. If they don't want to listen, well that's their given right not to....

 

[unibob]

If hanna replaced the lot 25's I have in stock, I will gladly donate them to Boga/Adunfinitum to do testing/ whatever they want with  as long as they don't eat it and get sick. Lol

 

[Duke]

the lot #25 numbers look a lot more believable than the new lot #35 you got...

 

[Pistol]

I have lots 27, 30, 34 and they're all all over the place, I wish I could get it wrong consistently, then maybe it would be right.
Ya I know it was only $60 plus the $50 I have spent on reagents plus tax and shipping but that's $150 I would like back in my pocket.

 

[Boga]

I will send my results to Hanna USA and Hanna Instruments Canada. Also I will send a FYI PM to all our affiliates with a link to this thread.

I have two boxes of lot 25 and have exact same issues..... I recently bought a lot 30 and it seems better.....
I wonder if Hanna will send me out some replacement lots also? Can you PM me their contact info?

Lot 30 seems to be Okay. Actually I've read on Romanian forums that reefers were ordering "Lot# 30 if possible" ... so it must be good . I will PM you their contact info and I hope you will get replacements, too.
Hanna USA offered to send me replacement reagent for testing, but they don't ship to Canada and then I was redirected to Hanna Canada.

For USA I used their web form http://www.hannainst.com/usa/contact.cfm. Prompt customer service.
For Canada I sent e-mails via links from their web page http://www.hannacan.com/contacts_en.htm. I contacted Technical Support and CC:General Manager. I got slow responses. I had to follow up twice.

This is kinda funny because when I contacted hanna about this a few months back, they gave me the excuse, people must not be doing test right. I showed them numerous links to this \"bad batch\" but they just brushed it off to end user error.

I would be so pleased to see a Gage R&R result from Hanna and then to see one of their best testers in action with lot 25.

the lot #25 numbers look a lot more believable than the new lot #35 you got...

I think I know what you are thinking . Readings too low, right? It is my "mistake". I collected the sample from a zone where both refugium and GFO reactor are draining into. It was a larger area where I was able to get a full cup of water. The comparison test is still valid. Lot 25 is out of tolerance and I found it in average 21.3 points higher than lot 35, which is very similar to whatever Hanna Tech Rep reported (24 ppb higher). If we really need to see exactly which one is good and how much is off, then we need a standard solution or an instrument with much higher accuracy to run tests side by side.

I have lots 27, 30, 34 and they're all all over the place, I wish I could get it wrong consistently, then maybe it would be right.
Ya I know it was only $60 plus the $50 I have spent on reagents plus tax and shipping but that's $150 I would like back in my pocket.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I saw some bad reviews about lots 26, 27, 28 and 29.
Lot 30 is Okay. I think 31, 32, 34, 35 are OK, too.
I think Lot 50 is bad again.
You can google your specific lot to see user feedback and reviews. It is all we can do from our end: Product review. It is sad, isn't it?

 

[Boga]

This evening I performed more testing. This time I collected the water sample from the Display Tank.
Two (2) tests out of each lot, using the exact same procedure as shown in the original post.

Phosphorous [ppb]

Lot# H025 Lot# H035
Test 4 | 11 ppb | 8 ppb
Test 5 | 45 ppb | 8 ppb


Phosphorous [ppt]
Lot# H025 Lot# H035
Test 4 | 0.034 ppt | 0.0025 ppt
Test 5 | 0.138 ppt | 0.0025 ppt

Note: I knew right away that Test 5 (lot 25) is going wrong! After I added the content of the package into the cuvette, I observed a bluish/black deposit at the bottom. I did not have time to take a picture because I was under pressure of the C2 timeout. But I took a picture after and I recorded a short video. You can see the black particles suspended in the water. I saw the same deposits on few other tests of lot 25. None of the packages from lot 35 had these particles. At least not noticeable.

[youtube]

 

[isareef]

I join to the black list with the bad lot# 25 reagent. Already contacted Hanna

 

[AdInfinitum]

I am out of the loop on this one at this point. 

My checker crapped out after two months of use.  I have been in contact with Hanna tech support who responded to my emails promptly and have told me to return it to the retailer where it was purchased.  The strangest thing about it is that their tech told me that according to the numbers, my checker is 2 years old, yet I know that the store just got it in and had been back ordered on the phosphate checker.

They clearly have some supply chain issues if they have stock that old still in the pipeline.  Do we know how old any of these lots of reagents are?

 

[Boga]

I join to the black list with the bad lot# 25 reagent. Already contacted Hanna

Thank you for posting and welcome to the Frag Tank forum. Please keep us posted with responses from Hanna.

I am out of the loop on this one at this point. 

My checker crapped out after two months of use.  I have been in contact with Hanna tech support who responded to my emails promptly and have told me to return it to the retailer where it was purchased.  The strangest thing about it is that their tech told me that according to the numbers, my checker is 2 years old, yet I know that the store just got it in and had been back ordered on the phosphate checker.

They clearly have some supply chain issues if they have stock that old still in the pipeline.  Do we know how old any of these lots of reagents are?

There is nothing on the package to show the manufacturing date. All I have is expiry dates and lot #25 is well before expiring.
I have reagents from three (3) lots in my hands:
Lot 1, Expiry 05/2013 (not using it)
Lot 25, Expiry 02/2016
Lot 35, Expiry 07/2016


--------------------------------------------------
Quick update from my end:

On January 31st, 2014, I sent my comparison data to both Hanna Canada and Hanna US. I asked that my e-mail to be logged as a formal complaint, and also asked for a root cause investigation.

On February 1st, I got an e-mail back saying that they sent my data to the proper department and they will update me with more developments.

 

[Pistol]

Lot 27 must be a bad lot, I have tripled my gfo and lot 27 says my po4 is rising and lot 30 says it is dropping, I hate my hanna crapper even more now.
Lot 27 reads 40 ppb
Lot 30 reads 18 ppb

 

[Pistol]

I'm now convinced that lot 30 is defective, the reagent is more like granules than powder and it doesn't dissolve completely, even after the test with vigorous shaking.

 

[TORX]

I am pretty convinced that the ULR Hanna Checker is defective in general. They are about as accurate as a blind man pissing into the wind.

 

[unibob]

I'm now convinced that lot 30 is defective, the reagent is more like granules than powder and it doesn't dissolve completely, even after the test with vigorous shaking.

Are you using 3 seperate reagents ? One for each test?

 

[Boga]

I'm now convinced that lot 30 is defective, the reagent is more like granules than powder and it doesn't dissolve completely, even after the test with vigorous shaking.

Would you like to try lot H 035? If you PM me your address I will mail you 3 packets of lot 35. You can send me 3 packets of lot 30 if you wish.  I got consistent results with lot 35, but wondering why so low? I used a lot of GFO, but is still suspect low.

I believe that you are sick of testing. I am in the same mood. I spent so much time on this issue ... another 30 minutes won't affect me .

Is there a calibration/verification fluid for ULR Phosphorous? Anybody?

 

[AdInfinitum]

Merk has standard solutions for everything... Total phosphorous is within the range of the checkers if I remember correctly but my current workplace doesn't use it.  I can ask around, I think a bottle goes for around $30.  Perhaps the lab at Harleymike's place has it in stock?