I don't know what to make of this.

[Marz]

Hello,
I have had 2 clowns for the last 2 weeks. I noticed on the larger one some white spots and have included a picture. This does not look like the FW Ich that I am used to as the spots have the same "neon white" as the rest of the clowns' areas. He is swimming around, eating, and sometimes chasing the other fish. Also, I noticed today that it looks like he has a fat lip (same fish), and painstakingly waited to get a picture of his mouth. Tank is cycling (used Dr. Tim's) and the rock is dry rock and sand is new. Nothing in my tank was started from another other then getting the fish at a LFS.

Can anyone help me out? And if these pictures do show an illness, what remedies would I need to take?

Thanks

 

[KBennett]

Mine had a couple white spots like that.  I gave it a 15 minute freshwater bath.  All good now.  Never came back.

 

[Marz]

Really??? How would I give it a bath? I have a qt tank that I haven't cleaned up yet. Will he be ok for a couple of days do you think until I get the tank cleaned up?

 

[AdInfinitum]

Where are ammonia and nitrite at this point? 

What salinity are you cycling the tank at?

Dry cycling a tank (and IMO Dr.Tim's is just a baby step above dry) with fish should be done at significantly lower than reef levels.  The toxicity of ammonia increases dramatically as salinity and ph increases. Further, metabolic stresses on fish are generally much greater at higher salinities.  As long as you only have fish in the tank and no inverts or true live rock it would not hurt to bump it down to relieve stress.

Clowns are not tolerant of salinities below  1.010 but unless you are looking at treating a parasite problem (at this point I don't think so) you don't need to go nearly that low.

 

[Marz]

Here are my stats

Temp 78.4
Sal: 1.026 (ato has made this very consistent which is awesome)
CA²: 480
KH: 8°
P0₄³: 0
Nitrite: 0.5
Nitrate: 0.1 (I would say horah, but want to test again tomorrow so that I am not fooling myself)
Ammonia: 0
PH: 7.89

Are you suggesting that I reduce salinity? I can do a small water change and add only RO/DI to get it lower.  Thoughts

 

[KBennett]

Really??? How would I give it a bath? I have a qt tank that I haven't cleaned up yet. Will he be ok for a couple of days do you think until I get the tank cleaned up?

Look up "freshwater dip" for instructions.  Be warned though that it is pretty stressful on the fish and not guaranteed to fix the problem. 

Lowering the salinity as AdInfinitium said will be safer and probably have the same effect.

 

[Marz]

Ok, I will give that a shot. What is a safe "step" to reduce to - 1.025 or 1.024?

 

[AdInfinitum]

Fish can handle fairly large drops in salinity quite rapidly as it just means they do not have to "drink" as much water to maintain cellular levels.  Raising salinity however should be done gradually as it increases metabolic needs.  I wouldn't be concerned about dropping it down to 1.020 in a few hours and that will reduce the toxicity of any ammonia and nitrite in the system. 

Nitrate is the least of your worries as it is essentially non toxic to adult fish except at extreme levels (thousands of ppm) and it's effects on other creatures at various levels is a matter of debate.

 

[AdInfinitum]

BTW since you are still cycling (measurable nitrite) you likely still have ammonia fluctuations and/or the fish may be suffering the after effects of the ammonia spike. 

The best time to lower.the salinity has probably already passed if ammonia is solid at zero.  Nitrite is also  effectively non toxic  at any salinity above brackish levels so the worst should be over.

 

[Marz]

You guys are awesome btw! Just so I am clear. I should be passed the worst in terms of the cycle. Watch the fish to see how things are over the next day, if little to no improvement, I can do a water change and drop the salinity without greatly stressing out the fish - tomorrow? Or should I buck up and do a WC tonight - I have water in a bucket that has been mixing for almost 2 weeks, I can drop the salinity in that bucket easily and then do the change.

 

[AdInfinitum]

No rush but if you opt to lower...save your bucket of SW...just change some tank water and replace with RO (at the appropriate temperature of course.

 

[Marz]

Perfect, will do this tomorrow. Will change out 2.5 gallons and see how that goes. Should drop too much with 30g (AIO). Appreciate the direction.

 

[Marz]

Changed out only a small amount tonight, went to 1.025. Now that I know how much 1g reduces salinity I am just waiting for water to heat and will change out 2 more gallons tonight. That should take me to 1.023 or there abouts.

 

[benzzz]

You call the larger one "he" when actually it will most likely be the female. Are the two fish simular in size?  Could be battle wounds from the other clown for territory rights and who is gonna rule the roost. Just a thought. Are they getting along? Clowns imo are one of the hardier fish in our hobby. Keep an eye on them. I remember when I got my 3 and the two smaller ones challenged each other. Then one stayed really small and the other got double his size.

 

[Neopimp]

you can take the salinity down to 1.009 for ich treatements... that is the lowest you should go with fish... that would probably kill corals and inverts and some types of bacteria.  so not something you should do in the main tank.  Look up hyposalinity treatment for ich.

Again just wait a bit but it never hurts to read up on ich treatments

 

[Marz]

You call the larger one \"he\" when actually it will most likely be the female. Are the two fish simular in size?  Could be battle wounds from the other clown for territory rights and who is gonna rule the roost. Just a thought. Are they getting along? Clowns imo are one of the hardier fish in our hobby. Keep an eye on them. I remember when I got my 3 and the two smaller ones challenged each other. Then one stayed really small and the other got double his size.

The bigger one that I call "he" ( I call both that ), picks on the little one frequently. The sometimes sleep together in the same area and they are together the majority of the time. I haven't seen the smaller one to date go after the bigger one.

you can take the salinity down to 1.009 for ich treatements... that is the lowest you should go with fish... that would probably kill corals and inverts and some types of bacteria.  so not something you should do in the main tank.  Look up hyposalinity treatment for ich.
Again just wait a bit but it never hurts to read up on ich treatments

I have been reading up on the ICH as of late. The bigger one doesn't look like it has ich at all (at least not from the pictures I have seen nor based on what I have read so far). I will get myself prepared. I will also be reducing the salinity again tonight.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Jewel]

Any improvement? How are they acting?

 

[Marz]

They are acting the same, sleeping together more. Salinity is at 1.023. Had to go out of town so wasn't able to lower any more. Will do some tomorrow. The larger clowns mouth looks better, so we'll see how this goes. But still has spots - almost looks like scale is bent. They are both eating well also. I will also take some more pics tomorrow.

 

[Marz]

Latest update. I have dropped the salinity down to 1.020 and it has been like this for the last few days. I haven't noticed any change with the "big one's" spot or dot. I tried to take as good a picture as possible. There has been no change to "his" behaviour, eating well, bullying the little one when it's feeding time, but they do sleep together in the same corner, for the most part. Do I need to reduce the salinity even more?

Here's the pic

 

[Jewel]

I wouldn't, leave as is for a few days. They're eating, that's good. Hopefully you get your Nitrite down to 0 very soon.