Issue With Premium Picasso Clown. Help!

[Nighthawk26]

Looking for some feedback here. Before I start listing off all my possibly thoughts, I don't want to clutter or perhaps throw a line of thinking off so for now I will post a pic and tell you that my prem picasson clown looked perfect one day, and next day looked like this. Best way I can describe it is it looks blotchy. Best I can tell its only on the white areas, mind you it might just be more pronounced looking there. Please help.

 

[AdInfinitum]

Tough to see in the pics... Any other symptoms? Rapid breathing, flashing etc... How long have you had them? Are they hosting in anything?

 

[EricTMah]

^x2
Any aggressive fish it's with? I've seen blotches form on clowns before when they try and start hosting in aggressive corals or even a reluctant nem.
Is he in your dt or just in your quarantine tank? Any other strange behavior? How long has he been like this for?

Sony Xperia Z3

 

[Nighthawk26]

Tank Parameters 2 days ago when I noticed issues and first I double checked

Salifert kits
78 degrees
1.025 salinity
Amonia 0
Nitirte 0
Nitrite close enough to 0. The SLIGHTEST hue, not even readable
8.1 PH
1400 mag
460 calc
7.7 ALK (more on that in a second)
0 Phosphates


System is 3 months old. (set up for almost 6) 330 total water gallons. 220 display tank, 70G sump and 40G frag tank with about 40ft return and drain 1.5" lines. Currently in that frag tank (connected to full system) are the 2 clowns, 4 lyrtail anthias, 1 solar fairy wrass, and about 15 frags as well 1 larger zoanthid colony.

Clowns have been in there about 2.5 months, Added solar fairy wrasse about 6 weeks ago, and anthias just under a month ago.

All were in QT before they went into display.2-3 weeks. NOW, I did have an issue. The wrasse and anthias were bought about 1 week apart and there were 7 anthias at first. Caught up in every other parameter and practice I've been reading for the main system I lost sight for the most part of the QT and how much quicker things change. I noticed higher nitrites and did a 50% water change. Just assumed it would correct. Clearly it didn't. within a day all fish but maybe 2 anthias were not looking good. fins a mess, 2 of them about to die. I decided to move them to the frag tank (again in line with rest of system). The next morning the 2 I figured were too far god passed on. 2 days later another one did. The wrasse was faded in colour, a little more lethargic, but within a week their fins have all grown back, don't look frayed anymore and the wrasse is back to acting like a weirdo and looking great again. On the 10th I added 15 frags to go with my larger zoanthid colony. All looked perfect till the other day and this 1 clown.

As for breathing, yes I would say a little more rapid breathing, but nothing that looks like hes massively struggling to breath. Eating just fine, but staying a little more localized to a piece of PVC than normal, although for most part spent more time there in general, for sure now more so.

The night before I did change my gfo and carbon as it had been several months since. I also added 15ml ALK, as for some off reason even though I'm using RED Sea Coral pro salt with an ALK of like 12, my tank readings I've been raising from 6.8 to where they are now.

I've tried to do reading on some disease possibilities, but there is no slime, no black dots, and other than that, reading for this stuff is like looking up your own symptoms on WebMD so i'm trying to not make assumptions casue like everyone knows, if you look up issues you might be having yourself, you for sure have Cancer.

 

[Nighthawk26]

I've searched every clown fish pic with disease you could imagine. This is THE CLOSEST example with a good pic I could fine. Although I can't say it's for sure scales missing, the overall LOOK of the "blotchy" I would say looks same.

One person suggests frogspawn did something, another talks carbon. I did bring carbon back online fresh the night before where as the carbon before I'm sure was greatly depleted and had been running in tank for a month before the fish even went in. One of my frags is a smaller 2 head frogspawn although I've never once seen the clown go to it.

Here is a link to the post with the pic.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/283165-help-diagnosing-clownfish-with-discoloration/

 

[Nighthawk26]

Tough to see in the pics... Any other symptoms? Rapid breathing, flashing etc... How long have you had them? Are they hosting in anything?

I think I covered these questions above. If my flashing do you mean the sort of crazy twitching? THey had both done that since I've had them. Everything I've read, seen or been told indicated it's them being submissive to the other basically. The one that is sick is the larger of the 2 so was assumed to be the female and more dominant. That said only other thing is since corals went in, the other smaller one would rip around after him in the tank. Went on for days and never saw so much as a nipped fin so I don't THINK it went from that to him having the living crap beat out of him. No aggression otherwise in the tank at all. They host PVC pipe. Haha.

 

[sunnykita]

I think I covered these questions above. If my flashing do you mean the sort of crazy twitching? THey had both done that since I've had them. Everything I've read, seen or been told indicated it's them being submissive to the other basically. The one that is sick is the larger of the 2 so was assumed to be the female and more dominant. That said only other thing is since corals went in, the other smaller one would rip around after him in the tank. Went on for days and never saw so much as a nipped fin so I don't THINK it went from that to him having the living crap beat out of him. No aggression otherwise in the tank at all. They host PVC pipe. Haha.

flashing would be like scratching an itch, on gravel or rocks

 

[Nighthawk26]

flashing would be like scratching an itch, on gravel or rocks

Gotcha. Ok, so every now and then he will sorta smash his face into the gravel. He's a weird dude and may just have not thought of it before where as now I notice it. I've been watching a lot this morning. They both sleep on their sides sort of tucked to the PVC. Always have. Today he was lazy getting up, and slow etc. Once lights came on he was no different than any other fish. Fed fine, swimming up and down and left and right all over. Nothing weird at all. Then for about a minute he did his weird freak out, smached his face in the sand a few times. More like you'd see a puppy freak out playing then carrying on. I will say for SURE his abdomen is different. Behind his bottom fins, in the front section of his middle white stripe.

Sorry, best way I can describe any of this. All very new to me.

 

[sunnykita]

I think a better photo would help, could be nothing at all, could be something going on

 

[Neopimp]

.Have a few possibilities.

1. He's an idiot and the sand play id scratching him up, or playing in a new coral.
2. He is diving into the sand due to an irritation, flukes, ich.
3. Or Brooklynella, but would likely be dead by now if it was.

It doesn't look like ich, and if it is Brook he's going to be a hard save. IF he conitnues to get worse I would try a bacterial treatment since his slime coat is gone... and a fluke treatment if you can. Monitor other fish for similar sysmptioims

 

[AdInfinitum]

.Have a few possibilities.

1. He's an idiot and the sand play id scratching him up, or playing in a new coral.
2. He is diving into the sand due to an irritation, flukes, ich.
3. Or Brooklynella, but would likely be dead by now if it was.

It doesn't look like ich, and if it is Brook he's going to be a hard save. IF he conitnues to get worse I would try a bacterial treatment since his slime coat is gone... and a fluke treatment if you can. Monitor other fish for similar sysmptioims

...what he said...plus especially if this clown was part of the group you described getting ammonia poisoning in your QT issue...it could have lymphocytosis which looks bad but is usually caused by nutrition and metabolic stresses and can be easily cured by increasing the vitamins (Selcon and PE Mysis etc.) In the diet for a while which wouldn't hurt no matter what the issue....

 

[Nighthawk26]

...what he said...plus especially if this clown was part of the group you described getting ammonia poisoning in your QT issue...it could have lymphocytosis which looks bad but is usually caused by nutrition and metabolic stresses and can be easily cured by increasing the vitamins (Selcon and PE Mysis etc.) In the diet for a while which wouldn't hurt no matter what thWas e issue....

Was not in with that group. Had been living a life of luxury with his mate alone in the tank for over a month and thriving.

I have been feeding them spectrum pellet and PE mysis the whole time, and today added Selcon as well. Todays observations for the most part are inconclusive. I'd say no worse than when first found the other day, while half the day it's actions were totally normal, swimming about the tank with seemingly zero distress with everyone else, but still moments of slight lethargy and the odd spaz out smashing his face in the sand and a few times his body too. Can't imagine with this going on for a few days that it's possibly Brook, so will contine to monitor and see. Biggest concern is obviously it posing an issue for rest of system. Hoping for more positive forward progress tomorrow.

 

[scubasteve]

i think if you find the reason for the nitrites you will find the problem... you generally only ever register nitrite during cycling, once your cycled ammonia and nitrite should be zero unless you add alot all at once to the system. it should get broken down to nitrate so something is going on with your bio filtration. have you added any chemicals to the tank recently or added alot of things all at once?

most disease will get worse fast if conditions are the same.

 

[jeffopentax]

Any updates on this?


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[Nighthawk26]

Yeah, the clown has just sort of been getting better. The white patches aren't as vibrant yet, but doesn't look blotchy anymore, no more rapid breathing, and no more sort of laying on it's side now and then. I wouldn't say 100%, but better every day. Still no clue as to the cause. Nothing to be certain about anyways.

 

[Nighthawk26]

i think if you find the reason for the nitrites you will find the problem... you generally only ever register nitrite during cycling, once your cycled ammonia and nitrite should be zero unless you add alot all at once to the system. it should get broken down to nitrate so something is going on with your bio filtration. have you added any chemicals to the tank recently or added alot of things all at once?
most disease will get worse fast if conditions are the same.

Sorry, don't think I said I had any nitrites. All is 0 across the board there.

The only things going in the tank are GFO and Carbon. (they did get changed out the day before), and from Zeovit, LPS, Coral Snow, and Xtra Special. Besides that, some BRS chilie, and mysis with some pellet food. I did try earlier that week frozen plankton as well, and discontinued after a few days. I was also wrong, and it's not a frogspawn but a hammer, so I'm not sure how getting stung is a possability as I don't think anything else in there can do that. Aside from that, I didn't treat with anything.

 

[scubasteve]

hopefully it clears up picassos are my favorite