My PAR

[copperkills]

So I have taken PAR readings with my 2x150W Phoenix 14k MH and now I know why my sps don't colour up.  Halides are 10 months old and mounted 8 inches above my 24" deep tank.  My sps are 8" below WL. 

WL=245
4" below WL=155
8" below WL=115

Disgusted with those reading I went right to SB which was a bismal 45!!


Installing my VEGA today,  will post readings when complete.

 

[spyd]

Yikes! I know 150w MH are not great for SPS at all but those are some crazy low numbers! Darryl and I checked out my PAR ratings a month or 2 ago and I was getting 350 on my sand bed. Running an 8 x 80w T5HO fixture.

 

[teebone110]

Looks like you know why SPS have been struggling in your tank.
Good luck with your new lights!

 

[Petercar (RIP Dec 2017)]

Wats the best reading to have at the sand bend.    No matter how tall the tank

 

[Neopimp]

My PAR

150 to 200 from what I remember. 400-500 or even higher at the top of the rock.  I have no source for this

 

[Darryl_V]

Re: My PAR

150 to 200 from what I remember. 400-500 or even higher at the top of the rock.  I have no source for this

depends on what you hope to achieve ....with those numbers I think your in SPS tank territory.

I also have a theory that tanks with higher nutrients could use a bit more par and tanks with lower nutrients can get by with a bit less comparably.

 

[copperkills]

So now Im getting some better PAR readings just below WL and 150 SB with the fixture mounted 13" above WL for coverage purposes....How long should I acclimate  the tank to the  LEDs?  Ive reduced the power to obtain PAR similar to the halides.

 

[jroovers]

Re: My PAR

depends on what you hope to achieve ....with those numbers I think your in SPS tank territory.

I also have a theory that tanks with higher nutrients could use a bit more par and tanks with lower nutrients can get by with a bit less comparably.

Intuitively that seems backwards to me.  Not saying you are wrong, I would have guessed less nutrients in the tank = higher reliance on light for photosynthisizing food.  More nutrients = less reliance on light for food.  That said, starved corals that are already pale would certainly bleach out faster under relativley higher lighting. 

 

[Darryl_V]

hmmm well coral placement is super important too.  You might find that you need to move some corals to the sand bed that were higher.  Ultimately though you should be slowly ramping up the lights over maybe 3 months.  Its a tricky thing.....I would start by giving maybe 10% more light and wait 3 weeks to a month and observe.  If everything seems happy than another 10% and so on.

Just to share my experience when I change my MH bulbs the par goes up almost 40% and I cant raise the lights so I drop the daylight period from 8hrs per day to 4hrs per day and raise it an hour every month to month and a half till I get back to 8hrs a day.  This helps significantly.  So duration also plays a factor. 

 

[Darryl_V]

Re: My PAR

[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=3765.msg33158#msg33158 date=1355270910]
depends on what you hope to achieve ....with those numbers I think your in SPS tank territory.

I also have a theory that tanks with higher nutrients could use a bit more par and tanks with lower nutrients can get by with a bit less comparably.

Intuitively that seems backwards to me.  Not saying you are wrong, I would have guessed less nutrients in the tank = higher reliance on light for photosynthisizing food.  More nutrients = less reliance on light for food.  That said, starved corals that are already pale would certainly bleach out faster under relativley higher lighting.
[/quote]When I say high nutrients I just mean nitrate and phosphate which the coral doesnt use but the zoo-x does.

The problem is the the zoo-x over populating the coral under high nutrient.  We all know high light can bleach a coral, which is loss of zoo-x, and high nutrient can brown coral which is an abundance of zoo-x.  So in certain cases they can work against each other.

Ask Bill about the tank at RR.....20ppm NO3 and .8ppm PO4 I believe.  Also super high lighting and great colours on SPS.

 

[Big_Als_London]

hmmm well coral placement is super important too.  You might find that you need to move some corals to the sand bed that were higher.  Ultimately though you should be slowly ramping up the lights over maybe 3 months.  Its a tricky thing.....I would start by giving maybe 10% more light and wait 3 weeks to a month and observe.  If everything seems happy than another 10% and so on.

Just to share my experience when I change my MH bulbs the par goes up almost 40% and I cant raise the lights so I drop the daylight period from 8hrs per day to 4hrs per day and raise it an hour every month to month and a half till I get back to 8hrs a day.  This helps significantly.  So duration also plays a factor.

This is the best advice anyone can give.  It is something I tell every customer purchasing new units or bulbs.  I also believe it will help hinder any unwanted algae growth.

 

[jroovers]

Re: My PAR

[quote author=jroovers link=topic=3765.msg33162#msg33162 date=1355274310]
[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=3765.msg33158#msg33158 date=1355270910]
depends on what you hope to achieve ....with those numbers I think your in SPS tank territory.

I also have a theory that tanks with higher nutrients could use a bit more par and tanks with lower nutrients can get by with a bit less comparably.

Intuitively that seems backwards to me.  Not saying you are wrong, I would have guessed less nutrients in the tank = higher reliance on light for photosynthisizing food.  More nutrients = less reliance on light for food.  That said, starved corals that are already pale would certainly bleach out faster under relativley higher lighting.
[/quote]When I say high nutrients I just mean nitrate and phosphate which the coral doesnt use but the zoo-x does.

The problem is the the zoo-x over populating the coral under high nutrient.  We all know high light can bleach a coral, which is loss of zoo-x, and high nutrient can brown coral which is an abundance of zoo-x.  So in certain cases they can work against each other.

Ask Bill about the tank at RR.....20ppm NO3 and .8ppm PO4 I believe.  Also super high lighting and great colours on SPS.
[/quote]

Maybe I'll jack my lighting down even a bit further.  I don't run mine very long though, 12 hours for LEDs and 6 hours for T5s.  Anyhow, interesting discussion.  I can't believe RR has a SPS tank with great colours and those parameters. 

 

[Darryl_V]

Re: My PAR

[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=3765.msg33164#msg33164 date=1355274869]
[quote author=jroovers link=topic=3765.msg33162#msg33162 date=1355274310]
[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=3765.msg33158#msg33158 date=1355270910]
depends on what you hope to achieve ....with those numbers I think your in SPS tank territory.

I also have a theory that tanks with higher nutrients could use a bit more par and tanks with lower nutrients can get by with a bit less comparably.

Intuitively that seems backwards to me.  Not saying you are wrong, I would have guessed less nutrients in the tank = higher reliance on light for photosynthisizing food.  More nutrients = less reliance on light for food.  That said, starved corals that are already pale would certainly bleach out faster under relativley higher lighting.
[/quote]When I say high nutrients I just mean nitrate and phosphate which the coral doesnt use but the zoo-x does.

The problem is the the zoo-x over populating the coral under high nutrient.  We all know high light can bleach a coral, which is loss of zoo-x, and high nutrient can brown coral which is an abundance of zoo-x.  So in certain cases they can work against each other.

Ask Bill about the tank at RR.....20ppm NO3 and .8ppm PO4 I believe.  Also super high lighting and great colours on SPS.
[/quote]

Maybe I'll jack my lighting down even a bit further.  I don't run mine very long though, 12 hours for LEDs and 6 hours for T5s.  Anyhow, interesting discussion.  I can't believe RR has a SPS tank with great colours and those parameters.
[/quote]I think that might be Jays secret.  High nutrients, high light.  But not something that can be easily duplicated in a display tank seeing as his frag tank is super shallow and he has 2 x 400w MH and T5's really close to the surface of the water.  It would be interesting to see what the par is in that tank.

I just thought of maybe a better way to describe what Im trying to get to...

high nutrients and/or low light = brown corals
low nutrients and/or high light = pale corals
high light + high nutrients = nice corals
low light + low nutrients = nice corals

Haha...its almost like math.  Of course this is only applies to a small degree and is my theory. ie no amount of light is going to colour up sticks when NO3 reaches 50ppm and PO4 is 2ppm

 

[jroovers]

I like your chart.  I think you need to define as you noted "high nutrients" and "low nutrients".  You need to make a grid or chart.  You can call it "Darryl's Law" or something like that.

 

[Salty Cracker]

The only thing I don't agree with completely... I have an ultra low nutrient system with what was so-so lighting, and I had good growth, but a lot of brown corals. 

However upgrading the lighting changed it to very light corals (which would match the chart).  I'm attempting to raise the nutrient levels, howver I don't want anything to do with excess PO4.  How can you get a higher nutrient system while using gfo and pellets....more feedings?

 

[teebone110]

The only thing I don't agree with completely... I have an ultra low nutrient system with what was so-so lighting, and I had good growth, but a lot of brown corals. 

However upgrading the lighting changed it to very light corals (which would match the chart).  I'm attempting to raise the nutrient levels, howver I don't want anything to do with excess PO4.  How can you get a higher nutrient system while using gfo and pellets....more feedings?

More feedings and a balanced nutrient export system, water changes, over sized skimmer, GFO, and biopellets