THE ANTI POTION THREAD

[Salty Cracker]

Just to try and help sift through the mountains of misinformation that seem to be circulating "buy this, pour in that, if you get this, then use this", I would like to offer up this advice.  Please note that I am not the end all authority by any means, but here, straight up, is exactly how I get a sparkling clean tank with good sps growth. (some is very generic info since I can't tell you what size tank to have, etc)

Hardware BASICS:
Tank with overflows and good sump with baffles
Filter socks on the returns                                                                    http://youtu.be/VfxeqBz7QQc
GOOD skimmer (rated for more than your total water volume)
GOOD circulation pumps.  Tunze or vortex are the current big boys.      http://youtu.be/lGhSa-ycBt4
Proper Lighting:  Metal halide or T5.
2 Good heaters                                                                                http://www.jlaquatics.com/info/33/Ebo-Jager+Heaters.html
GFO reactor: A phosban and small powerhead does nicely             
RO/DI with monitored output for ALL top up and change water.  Must be 0TDS unless you are Rick!!!
Chiller (if needed)
Reliable temperature probe of some sort                                        http://www.americanmarineusa.com/thermofacts.html



ADDITIVES:
Quality Reef salt - 15% of total water volume changed per week.
GFO: ROWAphos or Bulk Reef Supply Granular Ferric Oxide.  Changed monthly (NOTE: Phosguard is aluminum based, and so far the only people saying that aluminum isn't toxic to a reef tank are the people selling it)  http://youtu.be/M6uXz_G1xiA



TEST KITS:
Calcium
Alkalinity
Phosphate
Nitrate
Nitrite
Magnesium
Silicates
(You get what you pay for with test kits...seriously). The common rule is "DON'T PUT ANYTHING IN YOUR TANK THAT YOU CAN'T TEST FOR".


ADVANCED:
Automatic water top up system
Bio Pellets in a reactor                              http://youtu.be/7jDc8jp02s4 
Carbon in a reactor                                  Aquarium Carbon Demo - Bulk Reef Supply BRS
Tank controller (apex or reefkeeper)
LED lighting                                              http://www.rapidled.com/
Amino Acids (still on the fence with this one).


LIVESTOCK
Do not overload on fish, I keep ~10 in a 125 gallon.  Each fish is a little phosphate, ammonia and nitrate factory in my eyes. Pick them carefully.
Mexican Turbos: I hate them, but they are awesome cleaners.  Don't do much for Hair algae, but if you use everything above you shouldn't have any.






I likely missed a few things, but the above WILL get you a long term, thriving reef tank.  Hopefully this helps someone, somewhere. 

 

[Salty Cracker]

I should add for sure that the previous post is definitely IMHO!!!!

Add to if you'd like, but what I can say is that these are the things I did to finally enjoy (and stop getting frustrated) with this hobby. 

 

[reeffreak]

well done salty

 

[unibob]

Seems pretty maintenance free thanks for the post salty.

 

[Tinkerbell]

Your like half an hour away from me. How much for a house call? lol. Come see what I have and what I need. The only thing worse than getting frustrated, which I alreasy am, is buying the wrong things and wasting money.

There are so many mixed opinions out there its hard to know what to believe. but I promise to take your advice.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Your like half an hour away from me. How much for a house call? lol. Come see what I have and what I need. The only thing worse than getting frustrated, which I alreasy am, is buying the wrong things and wasting money.

There are so many mixed opinions out there its hard to know what to believe. but I promise to take your advice.

Heh I thought St. Thomas agents didn't like London agents going into your territory?

 

[Tinkerbell]

OMG. another Realtor!!!! Bring it on anytime  8) I'm not scurred hehe.

We should have a Realtor group. Are we the only ones with too much time on our hands in November!

 

[Poseidon]

Salty your a realtor?? How come I didn't know that?

Ya we should have coffee sometime

 

[Salty Cracker]

Salty your a realtor?? How come I didn't know that?

Ya we should have coffee sometime

I didn't want anyone throwing rocks!

I'm always up for coffee .......or beer.

 

[Poseidon]

Haha fish tanks, beer and real estate... Sounds like a plan. My dads a realtor as well.

 

[unibob]

...and I thought printing money was illegal.

 

[Poseidon]

...and I thought printing money was illegal.

... What?! Since when?!
XD

 

[Tinkerbell]

Haha fish tanks, beer and real estate... Sounds like a plan. My dads a realtor as well.

.

I guarentee we would talk more about our fish tanks. I should hope so anyway. Much more exciting. For me anyway.

...and I thought printing money was illegal.

We don't print it Jerry we clean it. Theres a big difference LMAO. I compare myself to be the Erin Brokovich of Realtors. I'm a Realtor. Not an agent. It's a job like any other. Brandon might not know who Erin is lol.

Being a Realtor is kinda like being an LFS. People think your only in it for the money!!!!  ( hehehe, had to get that in there). I'd like to think some aren't. But ofcourse I have a mortgage.

night

 

[spyd]

Salty, I agree with your system requirements. The only things I do different are water changes and GFO. My water change schedule is 20% bi-weekly. But, I ensure it is done the same time, every time. Water changes are extremely important IMO. As for GFO, I ran it for a while when I was having phosphate issues and then took it off line. I still have GFO on hand at all times in case I see any rise in PO4. I test for phosphates once a week.

One of the biggest items to get right is the skimmer! As you stated, you need to get one that is overrated for your system. Look at the air draw as well as that is one of the criteria that you should not overlook when investing in one.

As for potions, I agree that adding anything above and beyond this is redundant.  I have seen MANY nice SPS systems and they are all potion free. I did use Dr. tims One and Only Nitrifying bacteria to my tank when I started my tank. The reason for this is that I used all most all dry rock and needed bacteria in the tank.  I alsoused 30lbs of cured live rock at the beginning. Did the Dr. Tims stuff do anything? I have no clue... I never had a cycle, but how could I? All dry rock and a little cured live rock, there was absolutely no die off. I still gave the tank time at the start and even when I began adding fish, I never saw any ammonia spikes nor any increase in nitrates.

Now that my tank is running and stocked, there is no need to addd anything except to run a proper maintenance schedule which is key!

 

[Salty Cracker]

Salty, I agree with your system requirements. The only things I do different are water changes and GFO. My water change schedule is 20% bi-weekly. But, I ensure it is done the same time, every time. Water changes are extremely important IMO. As for GFO, I ran it for a while when I was having phosphate issues and then took it off line. I still have GFO on hand at all times in case I see any rise in PO4. I test for phosphates once a week.

One of the biggest items to get right is the skimmer! As you stated, you need to get one that is overrated for your system. Look at the air draw as well as that is one of the criteria that you should not overlook when investing in one.

As for potions, I agree that adding anything above and beyond this is redundant.  I have seen MANY nice SPS systems and they are all potion free. I did use Dr. tims One and Only Nitrifying bacteria to my tank when I started my tank. The reason for this is that I used all most all dry rock and needed bacteria in the tank.  I alsoused 30lbs of cured live rock at the beginning. Did the Dr. Tims stuff do anything? I have no clue... I never had a cycle, but how could I? All dry rock and a little cured live rock, there was absolutely no die off. I still gave the tank time at the start and even when I began adding fish, I never saw any ammonia spikes nor any increase in nitrates.

Now that my tank is running and stocked, there is no need to addd anything except to run a proper maintenance schedule which is key!

Remember that I was bringing a tank back from PO4 levels of .80 ppm.  I can never get anything but 0.00 out of the hanna checker now, but I turned off the chamber about 6 months ago, and levels were ~.06 within 5 days. so for me, I a) know 100% that it's doing its job, and b) obviously still have PO4 pockets in the rock/substrate etc.  For me, the only downside to running the GFO non stop has been poor growth on LPS without direct feeding.  Most LPS stays completely stagnant...no receding, just no growth, unless fed pellets or shrimp.  However, the lack of hair algae and cyano (and I used to have mountains of each), makes it a necessity for me. 

The setup I describe is one that can eliminate "old tank syndrome".  It still resonates in my ears when the LFS guy told me "a saltwater tank will only last about 5 years before it crashes.  Everyone is the same, in 5 years, you have to start over with fresh liverock and fresh substrate, just using a scoop of your old substrate to seed it".    I thought that was the absolute truth, that you had 5 years.  So to bring a DEAD 7 year old tank (with ~15 year old liverock) back to life to the point that I can grow sps (and maintain it for over a year so far)... well I feel REALLY confident about the setup I listed

 

[reeffreak]

Salty I would have to say the lack of growth in your Lps and having to direct feed them would be a result of the pellets not the Gfo

 

[Salty Cracker]

Salty I would have to say the lack of growth in your Lps and having to direct feed them would be a result of the pellets not the Gfo

Could be, I know better than you argue with you, you psycho.  ;D

 

[reeffreak]

[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=3639.msg31404#msg31404 date=1353947848]
Salty I would have to say the lack of growth in your Lps and having to direct feed them would be a result of the pellets not the Gfo

Could be, I know better than you argue with you, you psycho.  ;D
[/quote]

lmfao , i know you can handle feedback  Im not certain about it , but 95% sure .... again great thread !!

 

[Salty Cracker]

[quote author=Salty Cracker link=topic=3639.msg31407#msg31407 date=1353954991]
[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=3639.msg31404#msg31404 date=1353947848]
Salty I would have to say the lack of growth in your Lps and having to direct feed them would be a result of the pellets not the Gfo

Could be, I know better than you argue with you, you psycho.  ;D
[/quote]

lmfao , i know you can handle feedback  Im not certain about it , but 95% sure .... again great thread !!
[/quote]

Yeah, when I'm not contemplating extinction from a hospital bed because of some bad salad...yeah I can take it

 

[reeffreak]

[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=3639.msg31412#msg31412 date=1353956122]
[quote author=Salty Cracker link=topic=3639.msg31407#msg31407 date=1353954991]
[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=3639.msg31404#msg31404 date=1353947848]
Salty I would have to say the lack of growth in your Lps and having to direct feed them would be a result of the pellets not the Gfo

Could be, I know better than you argue with you, you psycho.  ;D
[/quote]

lmfao , i know you can handle feedback  Im not certain about it , but 95% sure .... again great thread !!
[/quote]

Yeah, when I'm not contemplating extinction from a hospital bed because of some bad salad...yeah I can take it
[/quote]

feel better man