THE ANTI POTION THREAD

[Salty Cracker]

[quote author=Salty Cracker link=topic=3639.msg31413#msg31413 date=1353956271]
[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=3639.msg31412#msg31412 date=1353956122]
[quote author=Salty Cracker link=topic=3639.msg31407#msg31407 date=1353954991]
[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=3639.msg31404#msg31404 date=1353947848]
Salty I would have to say the lack of growth in your Lps and having to direct feed them would be a result of the pellets not the Gfo

Could be, I know better than you argue with you, you psycho.  ;D
[/quote]

lmfao , i know you can handle feedback  Im not certain about it , but 95% sure .... again great thread !!
[/quote]

Yeah, when I'm not contemplating extinction from a hospital bed because of some bad salad...yeah I can take it
[/quote]

feel better man 
[/quote]

Oh I'm like a million dollar bill now.  Just like the tank, I stopped taking the potion the doctor had me on (and almost killed me), and went all natural.  I gotta practice what I preach!!!

 

[AdInfinitum]

Remember that I was bringing a tank back from PO4 levels of .80 ppm.  I can never get anything but 0.00 out of the hanna checker now, but I turned off the chamber about 6 months ago, and levels were ~.06 within 5 days. so for me, I a) know 100% that it's doing its job, and b) obviously still have PO4 pockets in the rock/substrate etc.  For me, the only downside to running the GFO non stop has been poor growth on LPS without direct feeding.  Most LPS stays completely stagnant...no receding, just no growth, unless fed pellets or shrimp.  However, the lack of hair algae and cyano (and I used to have mountains of each), makes it a necessity for me. 

Adding the RowaPhos reactor had the single most noticeable impact on my tank full of ancient rock as well. I would never go back to using PO4 removers on a periodic basis especially considering the inherent inaccuracy of tests at the low concentrations involved. However my chalice and acan growth took off as well as my few SPS without specific feeding.  I believe that the LPS do better without regular physical filtration and with large amounts of macro algae (in display and sump/fuge) so that pod populations flourish and the water is constantly full of "snow" to feed them (visible juvenile pods and microscopic pod larvae).

The setup I describe is one that can eliminate \"old tank syndrome\".  It still resonates in my ears when the LFS guy told me \"a saltwater tank will only last about 5 years before it crashes.  Everyone is the same, in 5 years, you have to start over with fresh liverock and fresh substrate, just using a scoop of your old substrate to seed it\".    I thought that was the absolute truth, that you had 5 years.  So to bring a DEAD 7 year old tank (with ~15 year old liverock) back to life to the point that I can grow sps (and maintain it for over a year so far)... well I feel REALLY confident about the setup I listed

They used to say two years....Modern equipment, huge skimmers, better quality foods and salt mixes have just allowed people to get away with bad husbandry, overcrowding, overfeeding and large fast changes a bit longer than before...but it catches up to you eventually... 

Anyone can buy their way to a pretty setup for a few years but long term sustainability requires patience, knowledge and a decent understanding of the balancing act that maintaining an artificial ecosystem is.

Above all else success requires a keen eye for the subtle changes in your livestock that will allow you to gently massage the system back into shape before it has gone too far to recover. I think that is the one thing that all of the "Rock Stars" of this forum have in common.

 

[spyd]

Also, I think people have to be careful with how they treat their sand bed. The sand bed collects the most debris in the entire tank. It can become a ticking time bomb. Siphoning or stirring up a SSB is essential to prevent built up gases and nitrates. If left untouched for years, then disturbed, these gases can crash your system overnight. Siphoning, Nassarius snails, sand sifting gobies, etc. all help to prevent this becoming an issue in the future. A DSB is no different. The theory behind it works. However, if disturbed, there can be serious consequences.

Also, not blowing off built up debris in the rock work is another common mistake that can lead to nitrates and phosphate build up. It takes very little time to do and will help prevent any algae blooms. Even with all the high end equipment, there is a need to keep up on the maintenance. Cleaning the sump is another good example. The crap that builds up on the bottom is only going to cause nitrate issues. Rock in the sump will trap dietritus easily and needs to be blown off constantly using a powerhead in the same chamber or turkey baster. Cleaning out your return pump and skimmer pump is also essential in having everything running the way it's suppose to. Failing to do these things on a regular basis is only asking for trouble. It WILL catch up to your tank one day. And when it does, it is an instant crash. Not a slow progression.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Also, I think people have to be careful with how they treat their sand bed. The sand bed collects the most debris in the entire tank. It can become a ticking time bomb. Siphoning or stirring up a SSB is essential to prevent built up gases and nitrates. If left untouched for years, then disturbed, these gases can crash your system overnight. Siphoning, Nassarius snails, sand sifting gobies, etc. all help to prevent this becoming an issue in the future. A DSB is no different. The theory behind it works. However, if disturbed, there can be serious consequences.

Also, not blowing off built up debris in the rock work is another common mistake that can lead to nitrates and phosphate build up. It takes very little time to do and will help prevent any algae blooms. Even with all the high end equipment, there is a need to keep up on the maintenance. Cleaning the sump is another good example. The crap that builds up on the bottom is only going to cause nitrate issues. Rock in the sump will trap dietritus easily and needs to be blown off constantly using a powerhead in the same chamber or turkey baster. Cleaning out your return pump and skimmer pump is also essential in having everything running the way it's suppose to. Failing to do these things on a regular basis is only asking for trouble. It WILL catch up to your tank one day. And when it does, it is an instant crash. Not a slow progression.

Oddly enough, of all the troubles I have, I never need to clean the rock, they are bare as bare can be.  My sand bed however, is an altogether different animal.  I'm grabbing at least one sifting star today hopefully to keep that mixed up a bit.  Hopefully not too much of course, I hope those things move nice and slow.

 

[Petercar (RIP Dec 2017)]

I got a sand sifter from sealife.  2 weekends ago. And never seen my sandbed so clean it must clean it overnite when lights are off ..i never see it much thru the day

 

[Duke]

[quote author=spyd link=topic=3639.msg31495#msg31495 date=1354020387]
Also, I think people have to be careful with how they treat their sand bed. The sand bed collects the most debris in the entire tank. It can become a ticking time bomb. Siphoning or stirring up a SSB is essential to prevent built up gases and nitrates. If left untouched for years, then disturbed, these gases can crash your system overnight. Siphoning, Nassarius snails, sand sifting gobies, etc. all help to prevent this becoming an issue in the future. A DSB is no different. The theory behind it works. However, if disturbed, there can be serious consequences.

Also, not blowing off built up debris in the rock work is another common mistake that can lead to nitrates and phosphate build up. It takes very little time to do and will help prevent any algae blooms. Even with all the high end equipment, there is a need to keep up on the maintenance. Cleaning the sump is another good example. The crap that builds up on the bottom is only going to cause nitrate issues. Rock in the sump will trap dietritus easily and needs to be blown off constantly using a powerhead in the same chamber or turkey baster. Cleaning out your return pump and skimmer pump is also essential in having everything running the way it's suppose to. Failing to do these things on a regular basis is only asking for trouble. It WILL catch up to your tank one day. And when it does, it is an instant crash. Not a slow progression.

Oddly enough, of all the troubles I have, I never need to clean the rock, they are bare as bare can be.  My sand bed however, is an altogether different animal.  I'm grabbing at least one sifting star today hopefully to keep that mixed up a bit.  Hopefully not too much of course, I hope those things move nice and slow.
[/quote]

I feel mine does a good job at slowly keeping the sand moving, and stuff the other ones I have great luck with are those xl nassarus snails, those guys move quick and eat a lot of waste before it has a chance to accumulate anywhere. once there done they all just disappear back into the sand, I like that.

 

[Salty Cracker]

[quote author=Salty Cracker link=topic=3639.msg31506#msg31506 date=1354028332]
[quote author=spyd link=topic=3639.msg31495#msg31495 date=1354020387]
Also, I think people have to be careful with how they treat their sand bed. The sand bed collects the most debris in the entire tank. It can become a ticking time bomb. Siphoning or stirring up a SSB is essential to prevent built up gases and nitrates. If left untouched for years, then disturbed, these gases can crash your system overnight. Siphoning, Nassarius snails, sand sifting gobies, etc. all help to prevent this becoming an issue in the future. A DSB is no different. The theory behind it works. However, if disturbed, there can be serious consequences.

Also, not blowing off built up debris in the rock work is another common mistake that can lead to nitrates and phosphate build up. It takes very little time to do and will help prevent any algae blooms. Even with all the high end equipment, there is a need to keep up on the maintenance. Cleaning the sump is another good example. The crap that builds up on the bottom is only going to cause nitrate issues. Rock in the sump will trap dietritus easily and needs to be blown off constantly using a powerhead in the same chamber or turkey baster. Cleaning out your return pump and skimmer pump is also essential in having everything running the way it's suppose to. Failing to do these things on a regular basis is only asking for trouble. It WILL catch up to your tank one day. And when it does, it is an instant crash. Not a slow progression.

Oddly enough, of all the troubles I have, I never need to clean the rock, they are bare as bare can be.  My sand bed however, is an altogether different animal.  I'm grabbing at least one sifting star today hopefully to keep that mixed up a bit.  Hopefully not too much of course, I hope those things move nice and slow.
[/quote]

I feel mine does a good job at slowly keeping the sand moving, and stuff the other ones I have great luck with are those xl nassarus snails, those guys move quick and eat a lot of waste before it has a chance to accumulate anywhere. once there done they all just disappear back into the sand, I like that.
[/quote]

Well I grabbed 2 at big al's today, and once the 24 hour acclimation process is over, hopefully they'll do the same for me.

I kind of think the 3 bastard turbo snails keep the rock clean...including any frags that aren't glued on with about a cubic inch of glue.  I swear to god the little effers 'work out' by trying to pop frags off of rocks and clearing frag racks. 

 

[Duke]

whats the thoughts behind a 24 hr acclimation and how are you doing it? I know you need to take along time and be extra careful with star fish but I figured a few hours was more than sufficient.

 

[Salty Cracker]

whats the thoughts behind a 24 hr acclimation and how are you doing it? I know you need to take along time and be extra careful with star fish but I figured a few hours was more than sufficient.

heh yeah I'm exaggerating a bit, I'm doing the 2-hour temp acclimation then probably another 2 hour drip.  I have seen firsthand what happens to a starfish when parameters are too far different.


***edit, well it was about 4.5 hours.  They seemed to be fine until they disappeared completely the second they hit the substrate so I'll take that as a good sign. 

 

[AdamS]

Wow this thread has evolved, may i evolve it a bit more?

Do you usually QT new fish? Reefcentral advocates 4 weeks, but my QT is only 10g and i dont think my new tangs would like 4 weeks in 10G.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Nah, I don't, but honestly I don't really care for the fish that much.  If they all died I'd just get more.  That said, I've had some ich before, and it tends to just go away on its own if the fish are eating.  I can't imagine keeping a whole separate tank for just quarantine.

I do however dip all corals.  I use coral RX and now a partial tablet of interceptor.  I had a red bug scare a while back, and man, that stuff is GOLD (sure as heck kills hermits though!).  I wish there was a coral dip that killed EVERYTHING except the coral!

 

[Bill@IA]

Nah, I don't, but honestly I don't really care for the fish that much.  If they all died I'd just get more.  That said, I've had some ich before, and it tends to just go away on its own if the fish are eating.  I can't imagine keeping a whole separate tank for just quarantine.

I do however dip all corals.  I use coral RX and now a partial tablet of interceptor.  I had a red bug scare a while back, and man, that stuff is GOLD (sure as heck kills hermits though!).  I wish there was a coral dip that killed EVERYTHING except the coral!

Do you use the strength Coral RX recommends when preparing  a coral dip?? Do you dip all coral for the same amount of time? I find certain corals won't tolerate the dip dosage for the duration recommended. Which always poses a challenge. Dip the coral too long and it is damaged, under treat the coral and you risk introducing pests to your display tank.

 

 

[Salty Cracker]

[quote author=Salty Cracker link=topic=3639.msg31547#msg31547 date=1354048024]
Nah, I don't, but honestly I don't really care for the fish that much.  If they all died I'd just get more.  That said, I've had some ich before, and it tends to just go away on its own if the fish are eating.  I can't imagine keeping a whole separate tank for just quarantine.

I do however dip all corals.  I use coral RX and now a partial tablet of interceptor.  I had a red bug scare a while back, and man, that stuff is GOLD (sure as heck kills hermits though!).  I wish there was a coral dip that killed EVERYTHING except the coral!

Do you use the strength Coral RX recommends when preparing  a coral dip?? Do you dip all coral for the same amount of time? I find certain corals won't tolerate the dip dosage for the duration recommended. Which always poses a challenge. Dip the coral too long and it is damaged, under treat the coral and you risk introducing pests to your display tank.


[/quote]

Actually, I exactly match the time and mix....1 gallon jug of tank water, with a tiny powerhead, with 4 capfuls of coralRX (careful of the expiry dates of course).  I have seen a lot of pods sneak out of corals and not die, same with acropora crabs and tiny starfish.  Obviously red bugs are immune too.  So I use 1/4 tablet of the tiny interceptor tabs as well (not the big 300 gal pills) crushed into a powder.  Then I set my phone to time down.  When done they get rinsed in fresh tank water then right into the DT.  I've done that dip once now and the frags were fine.  It almost makes me wonder what coral RX DOES kill.  However, if they're off the coral an in the bucket I guess that counts. 

 

[gobyguy]

i think that guy in the videos is ron jeremy's long lost brother...lmao :?

 

[teebone110]

[quote author=Bill@IA link=topic=3639.msg31564#msg31564 date=1354053104]
[quote author=Salty Cracker link=topic=3639.msg31547#msg31547 date=1354048024]
Nah, I don't, but honestly I don't really care for the fish that much.  If they all died I'd just get more.  That said, I've had some ich before, and it tends to just go away on its own if the fish are eating.  I can't imagine keeping a whole separate tank for just quarantine.

I do however dip all corals.  I use coral RX and now a partial tablet of interceptor.  I had a red bug scare a while back, and man, that stuff is GOLD (sure as heck kills hermits though!).  I wish there was a coral dip that killed EVERYTHING except the coral!

Do you use the strength Coral RX recommends when preparing  a coral dip?? Do you dip all coral for the same amount of time? I find certain corals won't tolerate the dip dosage for the duration recommended. Which always poses a challenge. Dip the coral too long and it is damaged, under treat the coral and you risk introducing pests to your display tank.


[/quote]

Actually, I exactly match the time and mix....1 gallon jug of tank water, with a tiny powerhead, with 4 capfuls of coralRX (careful of the expiry dates of course).  I have seen a lot of pods sneak out of corals and not die, same with acropora crabs and tiny starfish.  Obviously red bugs are immune too.  So I use 1/4 tablet of the tiny interceptor tabs as well (not the big 300 gal pills) crushed into a powder.  Then I set my phone to time down.  When done they get rinsed in fresh tank water then right into the DT.  I've done that dip once now and the frags were fine.  It almost makes me wonder what coral RX DOES kill.  However, if they're off the coral an in the bucket I guess that counts.
[/quote]

I would even use a toothbrush and gently scrub the frag and plug to dislodge any nasties that are holding on.