What Are We Doing Wrong?

[Tabitha]

Please help us out. We have had out 120 tank going since July last year. Levels are good. We have a sump with refugium and protein skimmer. Live rock and sand. We measure our levels weekly. I test salinity every other day and add RO water when necessary. Our healthy yellow tang Wolley was just found dead this morning. We feed mysis, brine shrimp and nori sheet. Our corals are not happy. We just can't figure out what we are doing wrong. We could use your experience and help please!

Tank inhabitants:

1 six line wrasse
1 oscillaris clown fish
1 bangaii cardinal
1 green frogs pawn frag (no full extension)
1 GSP frag
1 blastomussa
2 zoanthid frags (closed)
1 montipora plate (browned out)
1 aussie dendrophyllia (recovering nicely)

Current levels:

Salinity questions 1. 025
pH 8
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrate 20ppm
Phosphate 0ppm
Calcium 520ppm
(I will measure for alkalinity and magnesium tonight and update)

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[shamous113]

What lights are you running? and what test kit are you using to check everything?

 

[thehvacman]

Healthy fish don’t just die. Are you one who lives with ich or have your fish all been quarantined and treated. Sense switching my quarantine practices I haven’t lost a fish in more than 3 years. Your rocks don’t look like they have matured properly. For being almost a year old they still look like freshly added rock. There should be much more life on the rock itself. Did you start with any live rock? Decent live rock takes care of most of the filtration, maybe adding some will help your system mature properly.

 

[EZMac]

I agree, was fish new to tank, i have had problems in past with new fish introduced into community. My guess is fish wasn’t healthy.

 

[Tabitha]

What lights are you running? and what test kit are you using to check everything?

We are using the orbit marine light with white light at 60% and blue at 100%. Our test kits are API salt water and reef test kits.

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[Tabitha]

Healthy fish don’t just die. Are you one who lives with ich or have your fish all been quarantined and treated. Sense switching my quarantine practices I haven’t lost a fish in more than 3 years. Your rocks don’t look like they have matured properly. For being almost a year old they still look like freshly added rock. There should be much more life on the rock itself. Did you start with any live rock? Decent live rock takes care of most of the filtration, maybe adding some will help your system mature properly.

I agree. Healthy fish don't just die. We don't have ich, however we did not quarantine unfortunately, they were the first additions to the tank. Too many fish at once perhaps. We have a quarantine system up and running now for our next additions or most likely if any of the current three show symptoms.

And no we did not add live rock but cycled with dry rock and used two large bottles of ATM colony. Measured our levels until they the regulated. Then added clean up crew and fed them. Should we add live rock to the sump?

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[TORX]

I am with the other posts. Things look too clean for a tank that age. Do you add anything else to the tank? What is your maintenance? Do you clean the sand bed and rocks?

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[Tabitha]

I am with the other posts. Things look too clean for a tank that age. Do you add anything else to the tank? What is your maintenance? Do you clean the sand bed and rocks?

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We clean the sand bed every time we do a water change. Which is once or twice a month. We add RO water everyday or every other day depending on the salinity. But other than that. No nothing.

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[thehvacman]

I agree. Healthy fish don't just die. We don't have ich, however we did not quarantine unfortunately, they were the first additions to the tank. Too many fish at once perhaps. We have a quarantine system up and running now for our next additions or most likely if any of the current three show symptoms.

And no we did not add live rock but cycled with dry rock and used two large bottles of ATM colony. Measured our levels until they the regulated. Then added clean up crew and fed them. Should we add live rock to the sump?

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Well there you go. I say your tank is lacking all of the little organisms that come on live rock, sponges, pods and worms of all kinds, do so much work in our tanks to create a balanced environment. That being said the fish dieing can’t be because of water quality because fish are much more resistance to poor conditions than coral is, and I would think the coral would die before fish. So the fish had to be sick. I would add some live rock to your display and the sump as some organisms are photosynthetic so the display is best, but sponges will thrive in a dark sump.

 

[TORX]

We clean the sand bed every time we do a water change. Which is once or twice a month. We add RO water everyday or every other day depending on the salinity. But other than that. No nothing.

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There are a few variables that could come into play. One being just using RO water as you don't know what contaminants you are aging to the tank. Mind you RO is typically safe, so not really a concern. Another concern is the API kit. They are not accurate with when it comes to coral care. Your nitrates are obviously too high, but that kit does not accurately test phosephates and such. The third being the sand bed maintenance. Toxins build up in the sand bed Thad aree toxic to fish. It isn't recommended in a salt water tank and if you do, it has to be more often. All of which are easily fixable and easily turned into a successful reef. Just my $0.05

Regarding water changes, how much do you change in them.

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[TORX]

Make that 4 concerns, what he said

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[Tabitha]

Well there you go. I say your tank is lacking all of the little organisms that come on live rock, sponges, pods and worms of all kinds, do so much work in our tanks to create a balanced environment. That being said the fish dieing can’t be because of water quality because fish are much more resistance to poor conditions than coral is, and I would think the coral would die before fish. So the fish had to be sick. I would add some live rock to your display and the sump as some organisms are photosynthetic so the display is best, but sponges will thrive in a dark sump.

We were concerned about pests. Where would you recommend getting live rock?

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[Tabitha]

There are a few variables that could come into play. One being just using RO water as you don't know what contaminants you are aging to the tank. Mind you RO is typically safe, so not really a concern. Another concern is the API kit. They are not accurate with when it comes to coral care. Your nitrates are obviously too high, but that kit does not accurately test phosephates and such. The third being the sand bed maintenance. Toxins build up in the sand bed Thad aree toxic to fish. It isn't recommended in a salt water tank and if you do, it has to be more often. All of which are easily fixable and easily turned into a successful reef. Just my $0.05

Regarding water changes, how much do you change in them.

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Even the one that has the viles and bottles? With the waiting and inverting the vile. Not the strip test kits.

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[TORX]

Even the one that has the viles and bottles? With the waiting and inverting the vile. Not the strip test kits.

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Yes, the Reef Master Test Kit is not accurate.

As examples

API Nitrate kit tests 0, 5, 10, 20, and 40ppm and the 0-10 are almost the same color.
Redsea Nitrate kit tests 0, 0.25, 0.50, 0.75, 1, 2 ,4 and there is a larger color difference between the levels.

API Phosphate (PO4) kit tests 0, 0.25, 0.50, 1, 2, 5, and 10
Redsea Phosphate (PO4) kit tests 0.00, 0.02, 0.04, 0.08, 0.16, 0.36, and 0.64.

Truthfully any numbers higher then that are highly not recommended. Seeing that a PO4 level of 0.05 or lower is typically a goal, up near 0.1 can be okay. With the API kit, it is hard to tell any color difference until you get to 0.50. Nitrates in shallow water are approx. 0.1 ppm while deeper water can be as high as 2.5ppm. Some people will say otherwise, but low PO4 and NO3 are the best bet. Simply put, when testing levels for coral health, the API test kits will not test those levels accurately.

Most of the corals do not look that bad. Those levels matter most with SPS hard corals. The zoas are closed and I do see some cyanobacteria in a few spots. There is also a heavy film on the water surface that you may want to address.

Long story short, pick up some better test kits, maybe some copepods from copepods.ca. Even grab up a piece of healthy live rock from a tank that you have seen or someone you trust. There are lots of great aquariums in the Kitchener area. I am sure someone can step in with some.

 

[Tabitha]

Yes, the Reef Master Test Kit is not accurate.

As examples

API Nitrate kit tests 0, 5, 10, 20, and 40ppm and the 0-10 are almost the same color.
Redsea Nitrate kit tests 0, 0.25, 0.50, 0.75, 1, 2 ,4 and there is a larger color difference between the levels.

API Phosphate (PO4) kit tests 0, 0.25, 0.50, 1, 2, 5, and 10
Redsea Phosphate (PO4) kit tests 0.00, 0.02, 0.04, 0.08, 0.16, 0.36, and 0.64.

Truthfully any numbers higher then that are highly not recommended. Seeing that a PO4 level of 0.05 or lower is typically a goal, up near 0.1 can be okay. With the API kit, it is hard to tell any color difference until you get to 0.50. Nitrates in shallow water are approx. 0.1 ppm while deeper water can be as high as 2.5ppm. Some people will say otherwise, but low PO4 and NO3 are the best bet. Simply put, when testing levels for coral health, the API test kits will not test those levels accurately.

Most of the corals do not look that bad. Those levels matter most with SPS hard corals. The zoas are closed and I do see some cyanobacteria in a few spots. There is also a heavy film on the water surface that you may want to address.

Long story short, pick up some better test kits, maybe some copepods from copepods.ca. Even grab up a piece of healthy live rock from a tank that you have seen or someone you trust. There are lots of great aquariums in the Kitchener area. I am sure someone can step in with some.

Thank you so much for your help! We will definitely do that. Just one more dumb question lol how do we deal the water film and the cyano bacteria?

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[TORX]

Although it may feel like it sometimes, there are no dumb questions. We all started learning at one point.

Cyanobacteria can sometimes be cleaned up with increases water flow in the area. But if it gets bad, there are chemicals such as chemiclean that are reef safe if used properly.

The film will go away on its own with surface agitation. Aim a power head at it to break the water surface (not blowing out of the tank) and it will go away on its own. I found mine went away by actually lowering my power heads on the glass reversing the waterflow from the top down to the bottom up got rid of it in my tank.

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[shamous113]

We were concerned about pests. Where would you recommend getting live rock?

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I've got a seed rock in my sump that I got from another member, $10 and it's yours that's what I paid for it.

definatly grab a different test kit from one of the website affiliates. another thing to look in to is a ATO it will help you maintain the salinity level without the need to test every day, or put a mark on the sump in the return pump section when the salinity is perfect and top off with rodi to that level every day. what are you using to measure the salinity level?

 

[thehvacman]

We were concerned about pests. Where would you recommend getting live rock?

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Good question. I don’t know where good live rock can be purchased these days. All of my live rock came from big als 15 years ago. As many people know I’ve been breeding berghia nudibranches so i am constantly cycling my live rock through the breeding buckets, so now I probably have about 20-30lbs of extra rock. I would be willing to sell for 10$ a pound. It would be 99% aptasia free better guarantee than a store, ich free, red bug free, flatworm free. There is lots of sponges pods, coralline algae and worms, which I consider all good.

 

[Tabitha]

Good question. I don’t know where good live rock can be purchased these days. All of my live rock came from big als 15 years ago. As many people know I’ve been breeding berghia nudibranches so i am constantly cycling my live rock through the breeding buckets, so now I probably have about 20-30lbs of extra rock. I would be willing to sell for 10$ a pound. It would be 99% aptasia free better guarantee than a store, ich free, red bug free, flatworm free. There is lots of sponges pods, coralline algae and worms, which I consider all good.

Thank you for the offer! It is just too far away for us ATM.

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[Nonuser]

In Kitchener I would think the big als cured live rock would be good. They have tons of it. There’s a guy in Brantford that is selling. 30 lbs of Marco Rock, Been in tank for a year $50