Zoa/paly Help!

[DocMatthew]

Being a relative noob to this whole reef world, I'm not sure what is normal and abnormal, but here's my question/concern. I have some Zoas and Palys that are very happy, open and swaying in the current all the time, and others that seem to spend most of the time curled up in hiding. Some of the curled up ones are right next to happy ones. I tried a little 5 minute dunk in RO water to see if that would knock any pests off, and tried putting them in new locations, but they still remain tucked in. Any thoughts? Should I worry about this, or is this just what they do sometimes?

Here's an example (my Green People Eaters, I believe):


(when happy and open, they look like this):


And another:


(this is the second example when open):


And yet, others are perfectly happy looking:

 

[reeferkeeper420]

Probably lighting. Every zoa/paly is going to be different. And IMO RO dips will just further stress out your coral.

 

[reeferkeeper420]

And try to stop moving them around because that will also stress them out.

 

[AdInfinitum]

Probably lighting. Every zoa/paly is going to be different. And IMO RO dips will just further stress out your coral.

+1 on no RO dips. Great for fish with slime coats but most pests are likely better osmoregulators than corals.

Look into Bayer advance threads or coral specific dips. Personally Bayer and dilute H2O2 are my main weapons but these things do go through better and worse periods plus Z&P come from everywhere from reefcrest to deep dark water, clear open water to turbid lagoons so if they aren't good after a fair acclimation time a move may be in order.

 

[DocMatthew]

Thanks, reefkeeper! When you say lighting, too much, or too little?

 

[reeferkeeper420]

It really depends where you have them if theyre already up high id put them.at the bottom and leave them, and vice versa, but slowly move them up. Youll be able to tell if they want more light because they will appear to be stretching for the light. How are all your params? ALK, Ca, Mag, PH, S.g, P04, N03?

 

[Kyle1970]

Typically if they need more light you will see them stretch towards the light.
If they are closed up I tend to believe they are being touched by something causing them to close. I would wait till lights out, take a flash light (red if possible) and see if there is anything on them.

 

[DocMatthew]

I removed a bunch of flatworms over the last couple of days. I also moved one zoa up higher, one down lower under some shade and left one where it was to try to figure out if it is a lighting issue.

Water parameters are all good (I think):
SpGr 1.024
T: 792
pH: 8.15
KH 7.5
Calcium 360
Phos, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite: 0

Also began feeding them a bit more, based on recommendations from another forum...

Thanks for all your input. I'll keep you posted.

 

[reeferkeeper420]

Ok well flatworms could def be an issue, but your params arent way off but id raise your calcium to 420 and dkh to 8.4, corals have a better absorbtion rate with these params balanced at these levels.(theres different balanced levels not just 8.4-420.) Also id raise your SG to 1.026.
Also having 0 nutrients in the water ie. Nitrates and phosphates could be an issue as well, since zoas and palys feed off these nutrients.
And these zoas you relocated to different areas of the tank to figure out if its lighting, are they all the same zoas from the same colony. If not then that test wont give you a real answer since each zoa/paly has different lighting requirements.

 

[Kyle1970]

I believe your zoa issue is contagious as now I have some Blue Agave closing....
Keep us updated.

 

[scubasteve]

its important to acclimate zoas or they take a long time to open if they do.... any algae on or near is a main cause as well but if your pulling out flat worms id take a peek at night with a flashlight. definately keep no3 and po4 detectable if my tank hits zero i start losing zoos fast and bad pe on everything else. It can be a pain in a sps dominant system i literally have 17 different types of zoas and palys normally if one is closing and others are normal it is just growing a baby

 

[scubasteve]

I believe your zoa issue is contagious as now I have some Blue Agave closing....
Keep us updated.

Immediately bag and bring to my house for disposal

 

[heath]

dr scubsteve to the rescue..

 

[Kman]

Not to contradict anyone here but Freshwater dips do work on flatworms. Acoels and flatworms are very sensitive to salinity changes and by dipping the colony in dechlorinated freshwater for 5 to 10 seconds (5 min in RO is a little long) and then shaking the colony while submerged in freshwater, will cause the worms to lose their grip and fall off or they will pop from the quick change in Osmotic pressure. Be sure the freshwater has the same temperature and pH as the aquarium's saltwater in order to reduce the amount of stress on the coral. While true a soak in freshwater does cause stress, a quick dunk with the above steps will minimize it. The difference in PH and temp in RO would be an more of an issue but it is still far less stress then using chemicals.

I would check the base and between the polyps for nudibranchs and other pests to rule them out. Also check the tank for other causes like fish sitting on them, being picked on, urchins walking across them and being moved around to much. If your nutrients are to low they will not like that as they like to use dissolved organics from the water.

 

[AdInfinitum]

Not to contradict anyone here but Freshwater dips do work on flatworms. Acoels and flatworms are very sensitive to salinity changes and by dipping the colony in dechlorinated freshwater for 5 to 10 seconds (5 min in RO is a little long) and then shaking the colony while submerged in freshwater, will cause the worms to lose their grip and fall off or they will pop from the quick change in Osmotic pressure. Be sure the freshwater has the same temperature and pH as the aquarium's saltwater in order to reduce the amount of stress on the coral. While true a soak in freshwater does cause stress, a quick dunk with the above steps will minimize it. The difference in PH and temp in RO would be an more of an issue but it is still far less stress then using chemicals.

I would check the base and between the polyps for nudibranchs and other pests to rule them out. Also check the tank for other causes like fish sitting on them, being picked on, urchins walking across them and being moved around to much. If your nutrients are to low they will not like that as they like to use dissolved organics from the water.

Yes a quick FW dunk is great for flatworms but
Nudis are much more likely to be a pest seriously affecting Zoas than flatworms that are usually at most a minor irritant.

IMO "chemicals" employed appropriately and in proper dosages are very often more effective and less harmful than "natural" remedys.

Otherwise I agree with the balance of the post.

 

[DocMatthew]

All great advice, guys. In another forum, someone noticed amphipods on the Zoas in some pictures as well. So in addition to feeding more often to increase the dissolved nutrients (which is having some effect), I've been contemplating getting a fish to reduce the amphipods in the tank. Any suggestions on a pico-friendly amphipods eater? One of the closed frags (I think the green people eater) appears to have died - there is nothing on the frag plug. First coral loss for me. ;-(

 

[Kman]

I forgot to ask how much light are the ones that are closing sitting in? Do they open part of the day and then close or do they just remain closed?

I have not seen flatworms myself on zoa and I agree that nudis are more likely, or a bad kind of fireworm. I have also not had any problems with amphipods as well. Unless you have a huge population and they are running out of food or they are trying to eat something growing on the zoas. Zoa are pretty toxic to eat for most things. I have a green and brown button polyp that if you get it into your body it will make you very sick and can kill you. Even from touching it and getting it on a cut it can kill you dead after it shuts down your liver.

You can look at some reef safe wrasse. They would take care of amphipods, flatworms and fireworms depending on the species. Help keep them under control.