Alk Swings And Dosing.

reeferkeeper420

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Location
Ingersoll, Ontario
No not lately, i was going to today. Normally my p04 doesnt register on my hanna checker. Everything else was tested a month ago.i change out my gfo about once a month sometimes 1.5mnths if i forget lol.
 

reeferkeeper420

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Location
Ingersoll, Ontario
Here are my results..
Alk-7.7
Mag-1350
Ca-380-400
P04-0.00
N03-15
Sg-1.0245(bringing up slowly.)

Figured out ive been doin the nitrate test wrong...so i have a nitrate battle on my hands. Lol
 

Reef Hero

Super Active Member
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Lucan
I don't really see anything wrong with alk being at 7.7....
The nitrates are higher than I have ever seen most sps dominate tanks at but this is very much debatable....


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Reef Hero

Super Active Member
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Lucan
Do you test for potassium by any chance? When keeping sps it is a vital element that should be kept at 400-420ppm IMO


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reeferkeeper420

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Location
Ingersoll, Ontario
Lol flooding my thread eh ben haha. Jk. But no i dont ill definately be picking up a potassium test kit. And yeah i just got a kent reactor, is there any mods that have to be made to run biopellets? And im going to get my alk to 8 and leave it there for awhile. The nitrates are probably why im not getting the greatest polyp extension on my sps. Dont know where id be with you guys and this forum some days lol.
 

onecansay

New Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Location
Burford, Ontario
I see you are running GFO so be very 'carefull' how you introduce the biopellets.

I run my pellets in a recirculating reactor. Took some "weeks" to get things going.

Should you decide on the pellets introduce 'VERY' slowly while 'slowly' cutting back on the GFO.

I am still a fervent advocate of Chaeto side by side with pellets.

Hope that helps.

Thanks,
onecansay
 

reeferkeeper420

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Location
Ingersoll, Ontario
How should i slowly introduce the biopellets? And what would happen if these steps werent taken? Will it just strip the water of nitrates too fast? Would love to as much info as possible so i can get these nitrates undercontrol. Thanks.
 

Reef Hero

Super Active Member
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Lucan
I have never run biopellets but here's my take on them....being as they are a way to obtain a ULNS. introducing biopellets or any method of ULNS into any established system can cause changes.....good and bad. I would possibly just limit the water flow thru the reactor at the start while still tumbling the pellets. Keep an eye on your nitrate levels and watch your zoos. Zoos are notorious for loving a few nitrates in the water column.....how is the polyp extension on your sps? Usually if nitrate or nutrient levels in the water column are too high there will be less polyp extension....


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AdInfinitum

Super Active Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Thorndale, Ontario
I have used pellets to finally beat the persistent high nitrates in my very old (formerly fish only) system. The thing I will prepare you for when using pellets to solve rather than prevent elevated nitrates , is that when the pellets get going it will throw the bacterial balance out and you can expect an extended cyano bloom. If I were to do it again I would start with a very small quantity of pellets and wait a few weeks until the culture was established in the reactor and then gradually increase the amount of pellets to the recommended level.
 

Reef Hero

Super Active Member
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Lucan
I have used pellets to finally beat the persistent high nitrates in my very old (formerly fish only) system. The thing I will prepare you for when using pellets to solve rather than prevent elevated nitrates , is that when the pellets get going it will throw the bacterial balance out and you can expect an extended cyano bloom. If I were to do it again I would start with a very small quantity of pellets and wait a few weeks until the culture was established in the reactor and then gradually increase the amount of pellets to the recommended level.

Rob,
Very nice to hear from someone who has started using pellets in an already running/established tank!! How long was the cyano bloom? How many nitrates did you have? How fast did the decrease? Do you still have detectable nitrates? And my favourite question(like I haven't asked enough lol) what changes did you notice in the corals, like sps, zoos, Lps, chalice, etc??


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AdInfinitum

Super Active Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Location
Thorndale, Ontario
Rob,
Very nice to hear from someone who has started using pellets in an already running/established tank!! How long was the cyano bloom? How many nitrates did you have? How fast did the decrease? Do you still have detectable nitrates? And my favourite question(like I haven't asked enough lol) what changes did you notice in the corals, like sps, zoos, Lps, chalice, etc??


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OK...

Cyano bloom lasted about 5-6 months covered everything but I stuck with it and didn't take it offline.

When I first converted this system to be a reef after moving the tank and letting it run with only rock and substrate for a couple months nitrates were unmeasurably high. 100% water change dropped it to around 100ppm where it remained I could change 50% of the water and within 2 days it was back at 100ppm with virtually no bioload. Vodka/vinegar dosed at extraordinarily high levels, lost some corals, nitrates dropped to around 50ppm and plateaued. BTW this whole process took around 3 years. And yes I had acros living growing (very slowly) and nicely coloured at 100ppm nitrates. There was no significant build up of phosphates in the rock as I had long ago learned to control algae in a fish system by controlling phosphates.

Stayed at 50ppm'ish for a year would not budge...tried biocubes but not enough to make any real difference, finally brought pellets on-line since they were much cheaper for a large system than bio-cubes. The rate of decrease was somewhat controllable by controlling available phosphate by how much GFO I ran. Once the culture really got rocking I had to take GFO offline as I had 0 on Hanna ultra low range and my monti's all lost their colour and my chalice all bleached out and Z&P started dying back. Honestly, I almost took the pellet reactor off-line a couple of times but talking to DarrylV convinced me to stick with it and it was the right choice. Pellets have been online for a year I think

BTW in a year my system has consumed almost 1500ml of vertex pellets but now that the levels are low they have virtually stopped disappearing.

Nitrates are currently under 5ppm and I don't have to do water changes to maintain that, where I was changing 30-40% weekly when it was stuck at 50ppm and still getting nowhere. I have dialed it back on purpose at this point since I don't want it dropping too low. It will be slow adjustment from this point to find a level that has everything reasonably happy.

As for corals, and I will very much stress that this is my experience with my system...Your mileage may vary....since there are too many changes and uncontrolled variables for this to be in any way scientific...

Most sensitive to high nitrates...Acan lords and open brains (Wellso's etc) never opened, never grew, died quickly or slowly at 50ppm nitrates. numerous attempts. Now happy and growing quickly even rough TLC pieces. Next Monti's that just survived (or not) in the high nitrates, now growing rapidly. Example, when I got the tricolour and Blue devil from Ben I got a piece of red digi at the same time. Tricolour didn't miss a beat, blue devil browned but encrusted where I mounted it, digi was dead in about two weeks and this was not the only digi failure at 50ppm. Monti's are also quick to react when phosphates are stripped too low...lose PE then lose colour...they like nitrates low but like a little phos in their diet. Z&P don't seem to care much about higher or lower nitrates but growth is also best when Phos isn't stripped too low.

Acros, growth has accelerated but is not as dense as nitrates have dropped. Some brown ones have coloured up but there were many that looked great at 100ppm so no hard rule much more specimen specific than the sweeping statements that the online world is full of...yes everything has good colours with the lower nutrients (except the reds in the fire and ice Prostrata which was amazing before and hasn't yet adapted to the new conditions) but plenty looked great with higher levels.

If it was your goal, you could by trial and error fill a tank with beautiful acros growing slowly but happily at 50-100ppm nitrates and fill your sump with the skeletons of the frags that didn't adapt and then tell the world that nitrates don't affect coral colours or mortality at all....and have pictures to "prove" it.

Chalice is a very mixed bag...I lost some of my faves that had been happy in the high nutrient soup but a couple that had been slowly dying are doing well in the new conditions including a TLC piece that I got from Jerry that I honestly didn't think was going to work out but it has coloured up and has a nice green growth edge all around.

I guess it is fair to say that all of the change was hard on many things and so there were gains and losses out of the process. My hope is that the good params let me keep whatever I want rather than whatever will adapt to less than ideal conditions.

...of course the increased growth along with the decreased volume of water changes threw my alk dosing way out of whack, which kicked the crap out of some of my acros, but if this game wasn't challenging it wouldn't be worth playing. Oh and my SSC survived all of this and has held its colours throughout. Who knows...
 

reeferkeeper420

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Location
Ingersoll, Ontario
Agreed. Great info. Another question, does nitrates affect a fishes health? Like say if it came from a low nitrate system and was put in mine at 15, would that stress the fish out, potentially causing ich? Would really like to figure out the ich issue in my tank lol. Im honestly terrified to add anything fish wise to my tank haha.
 

curiousphil

Super Active Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Location
London, Ontario
Great info indeed!! I also had a cyano bloom when I added biopellets to my system, but after 2 weeks of syphoning it out I got fed up and decided to dose Chemiclean. Two doses of Chemiclean a week apart and some huge water changes got rid of the cyano for me and it hasn't returned since.

My experience with pellets, nitrates and SPS: I've battled high nitrates ever since starting up my tank. I don't know why. My API tests came out too red to determine my exact levels. Added biopellets last October and as of April they were still around 20 ppm.... but like AdInfinitum above, I had many corals that were living and growing happily despite the high nitrates. Colours are great by my eye. The pellets seemed to be maintaining the nitrates at a steady level... not lowering it any further but at least keeping them from going higher. When I got my doser back in May or June or whenever it was, I started dosing vinegar as well, to help get the nitrates down to the maintenance level I want (<=5ppm). I honestly haven't measured since then.... lol. Have been following the standard vinegar regimen and watching for the visual signs to display - still not seeing the bacteria strings, so I continue to up my dose by 10ml every week.

I don't know how nitrates affect fish health... but given that many FOWLR systems have very high nitrates, I'm guessing that nitrates can't be overly bad for fish?
 
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