I have a brand new open box eb8 and can match that price of $200 in CAD :0
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Apex
- Thread starter Fishit
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I have a brand new open box eb8 and can match that price of $200 in CAD :0
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Joshbrookkate
Member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2015
- Location
- Windsor
I'll take it, Unibob, if I can pay with paypal.
Michelle
The display is needed to do somethings. Especially during set up. I have read several people having to mail their Apex in for repairs just because they did not have the display to turn on/off DHCP which allows the Apex to associate a IP address. Without being able to get an IP address, you can not access it from your phone or computer and if customer support is needed, they can not access your Apex remotely to troubleshoot and run diagnostics. Basically a HUGE PITA without the Display. I rarely even look at mine; and it is out in the open. I also use it to reboot the Apex when needed, but I would be screwed without a display.
To your original question, you can not swap the 4 with the 8. You can add an 8 to your 4 if you want more outlets though. The Apex Jr's brain is built into the EB4 as a single module. With the full apex, the brain is its own module separate from the EB8. The Apex Jr has a limit of 5 modules. The display counts as a module. The Jr does not have any variable speed ports (something most use to control circ pumps and dimmable led lighting). 4 outlets is not much, return pump, skimmer, a heater and a light is all that you can control the ON/OFF only functions for. It also does not come with a Break Out Box (BOB) connection. A lot of people use float switches to monitor water level for several reasons, you would need to purchase another module as well as the BOB to be able to use float switches.
As noted by a few and some read the same over on RC...get the full Apex. If you get the Jr and then need any more outlets, then you will be buying an EB8 anyways. At that point you have spent about the same amount of money. I run 2 EB8's, VDM, BOB and display on my 120. Plus, although most think they do not use the pH, if you plan on dosing, then you need to monitor pH.
As Apex promotes them, the Apex Jr is a "Great Entry-Level Controller!" while the full is "Our flagship aquarium controller".
To your original question, you can not swap the 4 with the 8. You can add an 8 to your 4 if you want more outlets though. The Apex Jr's brain is built into the EB4 as a single module. With the full apex, the brain is its own module separate from the EB8. The Apex Jr has a limit of 5 modules. The display counts as a module. The Jr does not have any variable speed ports (something most use to control circ pumps and dimmable led lighting). 4 outlets is not much, return pump, skimmer, a heater and a light is all that you can control the ON/OFF only functions for. It also does not come with a Break Out Box (BOB) connection. A lot of people use float switches to monitor water level for several reasons, you would need to purchase another module as well as the BOB to be able to use float switches.
As noted by a few and some read the same over on RC...get the full Apex. If you get the Jr and then need any more outlets, then you will be buying an EB8 anyways. At that point you have spent about the same amount of money. I run 2 EB8's, VDM, BOB and display on my 120. Plus, although most think they do not use the pH, if you plan on dosing, then you need to monitor pH.
As Apex promotes them, the Apex Jr is a "Great Entry-Level Controller!" while the full is "Our flagship aquarium controller".
reef keeper
Super Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Location
- Hamilton, Ontario
What is a BOB
Break Out Box. Allows you to use float switches and auto top offs through your Apex
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Joshbrookkate
Member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2015
- Location
- Windsor
Breakout Box. To control/monitor float switches. For ATOs, sump level monitoring, etc, etc.
reef keeper
Super Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Location
- Hamilton, Ontario
Ah. Ok.
Quartapound
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2011
- Location
- Kitchener, Ontario
BoB is apparently just screw terminals and wires. If you're pressed for cash it is a super super easy DIY.
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Quartapound
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2011
- Location
- Kitchener, Ontario
It's unfortunate that they increased the price of the junior so much, basically made it not worth getting(maybe that was the whole idea), the difference between $175 and $700 is substantial, the difference between 300 and 700 is still huge, but there are a lot of added features for the money... I still can't see the display being that crucial if you are good with networking or have a half decent router, or someone you can borrow a display from when the you know what really hits the fan lol.... Most likely a non issue because you can't buy one without the display anymore unless you go used. Like Unibob said the Jr supports 7 modules now... I can't justify the cost of a full apex system on a tank my size. I can't even justify adding an EB8 as it cost more than my entire apex system did lol... The full Apex Gold system is over $1000...
Like comparing a Kia to a Mercedes and saying you should have the Mercedes lol... Of course everyone would, but not always practical/possible.
Another thing the Junior is lacking is current monitoring ...which would be very nice, but I would regain that functionality if I purchased an EB8.
What I'd really like to figure out how to do is interface the apex with an arduino using software and the Apex's XML pages and virtual outlets...
just kind of thinking out loud at this point lol
Like comparing a Kia to a Mercedes and saying you should have the Mercedes lol... Of course everyone would, but not always practical/possible.
Another thing the Junior is lacking is current monitoring ...which would be very nice, but I would regain that functionality if I purchased an EB8.
What I'd really like to figure out how to do is interface the apex with an arduino using software and the Apex's XML pages and virtual outlets...
just kind of thinking out loud at this point lol
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That's amazing guys thanks this is way more help than I could find on the internet lol even right from apex lol torx you realy know your stuff on these wow thank you ok so the jr is out I did not know the main brain was in the power bar but I will be using alot of switches it doesn't come with a breakout box right and will it require another modual to control my jeabo pumps ?
Nighthawk26
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2015
- Location
- Waterloo
Bah. EB8. If it's available at the $200 still, I'll take it! I saw someone piped up, but who knows. Let me know in a PM.
The BOB is an add on. You can DIY one pretty simple. I have a thread here on it. To control the Jebao, there is a module out there that is not made by Apex that controls the Jebao pumps. There is also a DIY on that. I may have parts left somewhere if you are interested in making one.
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Let me ask people this before they don't buy a display thinking they don't need it. Without the display how do you configure your initial connection setting so it is on your network so you can access it via the app or browser? How do you enable and sync your Fusion token when it is not on the network without physical access to the Apex when you first get it? The Apex requires initial programming done by that display so you can get it onto your network. Mine would not connect to the network till I set it to static IP and the only way to do that is by that display so I could configure the network settings. Without it I would have been dead in the water till I got one.
Also if your network is down and you can't connect thorough the app or browser based options and you don't have the display how do you access the Apex to fix the settings? Or to run diagnostics on the Apex to repair corrupted firmware or config settings when not on the network. You can't unless you have the display. Trust me that display is well worth it in times like that and it will mean the difference between your Apex being up and running or down till you order the display. Just keep the display beside the Apex for emergency's like I do and for basic programming. That display has saved me a few times and without it everything including my lights would have been down for a week. My Apex firmware got corrupted after water dumped on one of my EB8 powerbar and shorted it out and I had to re-program everything on my Apex. Without that display I would not be able to program the network settings so I could access it to get it up and running. I may not use mine that often but That display is well worth having in times of need.
Also if your network is down and you can't connect thorough the app or browser based options and you don't have the display how do you access the Apex to fix the settings? Or to run diagnostics on the Apex to repair corrupted firmware or config settings when not on the network. You can't unless you have the display. Trust me that display is well worth it in times like that and it will mean the difference between your Apex being up and running or down till you order the display. Just keep the display beside the Apex for emergency's like I do and for basic programming. That display has saved me a few times and without it everything including my lights would have been down for a week. My Apex firmware got corrupted after water dumped on one of my EB8 powerbar and shorted it out and I had to re-program everything on my Apex. Without that display I would not be able to program the network settings so I could access it to get it up and running. I may not use mine that often but That display is well worth having in times of need.
Quartapound
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2011
- Location
- Kitchener, Ontario
Iv'e had my apex for probably about 3 years with no display. I've never had any of these issues. I've moved, upgraded routers, changed network settings, updated firmware... everything.... That said, I'm very comfortable with networking, and computers in general.
They sold these things for a few years without the display, they wouldn't do that if you NEEDED one.
I've never heard of a "network being down" inside of a home... router gets unplugged?
If you're having issues with initial setup (Apex not on the same subnet as your router, etc) you could simply connect it directly to the computer (crossover cable, although I bet a standard cable would work just as well) and bypass the router completely, setup your NIC to connect to it directly... Then program the Apex for static IP that corresponds with your network, and you'd be good to go.
If your apex has "corrupted firmware" what are the chances that the display is going to work properly? I'd guess it wouldn't even 'boot' and you'd be sending it back at that point anyway?
If, like I stated earlier, the *#&$ REALLY hit the fan, and you thought you needed one to get things going again, I'm sure you'd find someone willing to help by donating theirs to lend for an hour or two (since it sounds like most only use them in case of 'emergency' anyways)... People on this forum are incredibly generous and I've seen them go out of their way to help others in time of need.
I just don't want people to think the only way to solve this perceived 'problem' is by throwing money at it.... Although unless you're buying a used Apex Jr, it would be nearly impossible to find one to buy without a display now anyway... So it's probably a non-issue.
They sold these things for a few years without the display, they wouldn't do that if you NEEDED one.
I've never heard of a "network being down" inside of a home... router gets unplugged?
If you're having issues with initial setup (Apex not on the same subnet as your router, etc) you could simply connect it directly to the computer (crossover cable, although I bet a standard cable would work just as well) and bypass the router completely, setup your NIC to connect to it directly... Then program the Apex for static IP that corresponds with your network, and you'd be good to go.
If your apex has "corrupted firmware" what are the chances that the display is going to work properly? I'd guess it wouldn't even 'boot' and you'd be sending it back at that point anyway?
If, like I stated earlier, the *#&$ REALLY hit the fan, and you thought you needed one to get things going again, I'm sure you'd find someone willing to help by donating theirs to lend for an hour or two (since it sounds like most only use them in case of 'emergency' anyways)... People on this forum are incredibly generous and I've seen them go out of their way to help others in time of need.
I just don't want people to think the only way to solve this perceived 'problem' is by throwing money at it.... Although unless you're buying a used Apex Jr, it would be nearly impossible to find one to buy without a display now anyway... So it's probably a non-issue.
Quartapound
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2011
- Location
- Kitchener, Ontario
you don't need internet for the apex to work. (you don't need to use the fusion website) you can connect to it directly in your local network using it's IP address directly or typing in http://apex/ to your browser.
Upon internet reconnecting, you'd simply be able to access it remotely again (outside your home) but it has no effect to the operation of the Apex, and it continues working happily as if nothing happened (and reconnects automatically when internet is restored)
Upon internet reconnecting, you'd simply be able to access it remotely again (outside your home) but it has no effect to the operation of the Apex, and it continues working happily as if nothing happened (and reconnects automatically when internet is restored)