cloudy water

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pulpfiction1

Reef Scavenger
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Nov 16, 2010
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42.418807, -82.174073
every tank, every system ,including all that I have purchased just to flip
has use this product in it .in the last 2 years of loan I have probably set up 50 + systems in my own home ,many on here a purchase rock ,fish,corals  I have yet to had a crash ,eating on this is like beating a dead horse  I will continue to use and market this product you don't have to buy it you don't have to even make judgement on it ,I have posted many systems here there's plenty of proof of how well my systems work and function 
Sent from my HTC Incredible S
 
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reeffreak

Guest
Can you explain the process  how it works and what exactly takes place in the process of this product .
 

Blob-79

Super Active Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Location
Tillsonburg
This is what im seeing. We found the MSDS for this stuff.

There are bacterias in the ingredients, The first being a natural anti fungus bacteria, mostly found in soils around plant roots. The second and third bacterias are known for their ability to break down complex proteins...in soil and possibly warm fresh waters. The third and fourth are in fact known for eating ammonia, and nitrite. Both however are found in soil, freshwater and sewage.  I dont see any remarks for any of these bacterias ability to survive, let alone function in saltwater.
 

yveterinarian

Super Active Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Location
Innerkip, Ontario
I haven't used this product before so can't comment on it but a quick way of testing it is to set up a small tank for an experiment.  Put in your live rock and your product.  Add household ammonia (with no additives) to bring the ammonia level up to 2ppm.  If the ammonia fully clears within 12 hours or less, it is ready to take fish, etc.  If not, then wait to see how long it takes to clear.  Once it has dropped down to zero, add ammonia again to bring it up to 2ppm and see how long it takes.  Continue this until you get the right results in the right timeframe. 

This is a very accurate way to see if it works without having to put any fish under stress.  With Stability, I use this method and it takes approximately 4-6 weeks to fully cycle without live rock because I don't want to add anything unwanted into my seahorse tank.  Once a tank can clear this much ammonia in 12 hours or less, it can take the added bioburden of fish, etc.  I purchased my "No additive ammonia" at Walmart.
Why don't you all do an experiment using a 10 gallon tank and start a new thread with the results?  I think it would be a cool experiment.
 
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reeffreak

Guest
Problem with that is who wants to waste the LR to test with ....cause I know I won't ever use it in my tank after its used with that stuff and tbh I would never use it and waste my time or money on it, don't take it personal it's not.
 

Blob-79

Super Active Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Location
Tillsonburg
thats actually a very good suggestion, I would do it...if I had an ammonia test. I dont care enouph about it to invest in a tester :)

On a side note, the bacteria contained in this product "Nitrosomonas" is the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite(in fresh water). The bacteria required in saltwater is actually "Nitrosococcus"

Thats what i gathered from my research
 

yveterinarian

Super Active Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Location
Innerkip, Ontario
[quote author=Blob-79 link=topic=3632.msg31269#msg31269 date=135378593

On a side note, the bacteria contained in this product "Nitrosomonas" is the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite(in fresh water). The bacteria required in saltwater is actually "Nitrosococcus"

Thats what i gathered from my research
[/quote]

Very interesting. I always love to find out what is in things.  :)
 

pulpfiction1

Reef Scavenger
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
42.418807, -82.174073
ill supply the bacteria,yu supply the dead rock or polluted rock even better,lots of die off on it preferred,nothing to sacrifice,anytime,torx is closer and would be totally nuetral,wouldnt need even a sump,a 20 gallon,20 lbs of dead rock,a couple of damsels and unused salt water,a decent test kit,problem is even when it works you will still say its a fluke,still say its snake oil and still run the product down as fake,etc etc.in all my builds on this site you can see my takes running with fish and corals all within a day or two from completion as plenty of proof,you wont find a post from me about bad water,fish dying,or corals crapping out over the use of this product
 
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reeffreak

Guest
Bring a couple bottles to work see if u can covert the ammonia over a nitrate factory
 

Blob-79

Super Active Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Location
Tillsonburg
ill do some testing..that is if everyone can agree that I am a neutral party in this, and I will conduct the tests as fairly as possible.

Ill contact Brandon to see if I can get some of his.
 

pulpfiction1

Reef Scavenger
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
42.418807, -82.174073
pulpfiction1 link said:
ill supply the bacteria,yu supply the dead rock or polluted rock even better,lots of die off on it preferred,nothing to sacrifice,anytime,torx is closer and would be totally nuetral,wouldnt need even a sump,a 20 gallon,20 lbs of dead rock,a couple of damsels and unused salt water,a decent test kit,problem is even when it works you will still say its a fluke,still say its snake oil and still run the product down as fake,etc etc.in all my builds on this site you can see my takes running with fish and corals all within a day or two from completion as plenty of proof,you wont find a post from me about bad water,fish dying,or corals crapping out over the use of this product

let me know,and when it works? what then?
 
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reeffreak

Guest
Don't forget sand in the tank as well, also you can't really say what our opinion is based on something that hasn't even happened yet. Also a damsel is a pretty hardy fish it could survive in a toilet bowl just my opinion
 

pulpfiction1

Reef Scavenger
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Nov 16, 2010
Location
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put in any fish you want and sand would definatley be a non issue,thing is brandon is using it,i am using it,brandon had already had the cycle,i do find it redundant for yet a third system but i dont mind,i know the product and stand behind it,toss in a little gsp,maybe a bit of xenia,i dont care,the cycle will occur complete within 24-36 hrs

its about the cycle of the tank anyways,damsels or otherwise they will survive the test
 

yveterinarian

Super Active Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Location
Innerkip, Ontario
Since I am a totally non-biased observer, how about I conduct the test using dry rock and the cycle method I suggested?  I could pick up some of the bacteria  from Brandon - I promised that I would see your setup anyways Brandon.  I would like to do this because I am interested and like to explore new possibilities. 
I have some dry sand as well if everyone wants sand in the test.  For the purpose of the test, I would use only dry rock and dry sand so that no one could say that other bacteria was present to scew the results.  I would do the test using the ammonia method so I can measure the water accurately under a controlled condition.  I would be using a well recognized cycling method that I have posted below.
Regardless of whether or not anyone intends to use it, this would at least put the argument to rest.  If Blob-79 also performs a test using the same method, we could compare results.  What do you say?  I'm a little tired of people getting upset about something they haven't tried.  I know a regular cycle takes at least 6-8 weeks and that is what I'm used to as well but I have a completely open mind and would like to see if this works.


Cycling with the ammonia method
Another method of cycling a tank that is increasing in popularity, is using 100% pure household ammonia. Instead of utilizing ammonia-producing organisms to start the cycling process, the ammonia method involves directly adding bottled ammonia along with a starter culture of bacteria.
The ammonia must be clear, unscented, 100% pure, and with no additives. However, you may find typical household ammonia to be mostly water with an actual strength of only 5–10%. Since the concentration may vary, you will need to experiment a little to find the right amount needed to cycle your tank.
When using the ammonia method, the necessary bacteria can be introduced to your system a couple of different ways. If you have access to an established and healthy tank, obtain a small amount of sand or gravel or even used filter media. This can then be placed in the tank to be cycled and will provide a starter culture of bacteria. Another option is to use a commercial preparation of bacteria, such as Hagen's Cycle, to introduce the nitrifying microbes.
After the tank has been set up and the bacteria have been introduced, begin to add the ammonia. If the tank is on the smaller side, start with only a couple of drops. Let it circulate in the water for a short time, and then test for ammonia. You want to raise the ammonia level to about 1–2 PPM Continue adding drops of ammonia and testing, while keeping track of how many drops total it takes to get to 1–2 PPM
Once you've reached the desired level, you now need to wait for the bacteria to multiply and do their job. It may take several days to a couple of weeks for your ammonia test to register zero. Once it does, add the same number of drops of ammonia again. Keep repeating this many times, each time waiting until ammonia reads zero, until finally the ammonia test goes to zero within 8–12 hours of the addition of ammonia.
When the tank is able to clear the ammonia within this time frame, that means that there are large numbers of bacteria present. At this time, test for nitrites. If nitrites are present, perform 3v4 more ammonia cycles to further establish the second group of bacteria. If the nitrite test reads zero, perform a very large water change and then you can begin slowly stocking your tank.
It's been suggested that elevating the temperature of the tank to the mid-80s F during cycling with the ammonia method can have beneficial effects. Just make sure that there are no animals in the tank being subjected to this temperature extreme (and ammonia), and also make sure to lower the temperature again prior to stocking.
Also, tanks with low alkalinity may experience pH spikes with the addition of household ammonia. These spikes may also hinder the growth of the necessary bacteria. To counteract the problem, use a good buffering product prior to cycling with ammonia, and perform a large water change after cycling (prior to stocking) to get pH levels back on track.
 

BIGSHOW

Super Active Member
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Hamilton
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www.bigshowfrags.com
All the ammonia method talks about is introducing the ammonia in the forum of.....ammonia.  You can add ammonia to tanks a number of ways (fish waste).  This ammonia test will have no bearing on the product being discussed.

"Once you've reached the desired level, you now need to wait for the bacteria to multiply and do their job. It may take several days to a couple of weeks for your ammonia test to register zero. Once it does, add the same number of drops of ammonia again. Keep repeating this many times, each time waiting until ammonia reads zero, until finally the ammonia test goes to zero within 8–12 hours of the addition of ammonia."

The questions we all want answered is....Can this magical potion of bacteria survive in the tank for more then just the time it takes to initially convert the newly introduced ammonia in the tank.  Can this bacteria reproduce and continually breakdown the ammonia? 
 

Duke

Distinguished Member
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Joined
Sep 20, 2011
regardless of this "experiment" working or failing it doesn't change the fact that in just 24-36 hours no reef tank is going to be ready and able to keep livestock PROPERLY. I don't care if it cycled in 5 minutes or 2 days.. if you think that the bacteria populations that are needed to keep a successful reef tank will just magically appear overnight, your either nuts, or highly misinformed on the inner workings of the chemistry behind our tanks.. I Don't doubt some products ability to remove ammonia from tank water.. we all know that products like Prime, Stability, Amquel all do this quite well. If you dose these yes its going to remove the ammonia and yes some possibly will be converted to nitrates, but in no way shape or form can you consider that as an indication that your tank is completely cycled and ready to go, The experiment is useless as far as im concerned because its been talked about over and over and over again for years on EVERY reef site on the web. Take your time + Cycle your tank properly = Success..  Rushing things + inexperience = Failure.. its that simple. And I think the OP has proven this quite well.. for a second time in the last few months.
 

pulpfiction1

Reef Scavenger
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
42.418807, -82.174073
this product is designed to be used in a new setup complete wit rocks and anything else you want in it,it is also crucial to add life ie:fish as this is the key element to starting the cycle,this product will also revive an almost completely dead system,one that has sat for months with out maintenance ,this product has a massive amount of bacteria in comparison to its competitors like Bio-Spira ,MB7 ,ZEObak,
and others on the market,if your going to do a test do it exactly as its outlined on the bottle


here is a pic of my tank,barley 3 months old,i dont use this product as a maintenance product only to cycle it at startup ,amoninia zero,nitrites zero,nitrates 10ppm
 

Neopimp

Website Doctor
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Website Admin
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Jun 9, 2014
Location
Sarnia
I have heard that in Japan hydrochloric acid is used successfully to cycle tanks
 
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