Diatom Algae

[Neopimp]

Diatom Algae

Dinoflagellates

 

[Salty Cracker]

Yup.  http://www.3reef.com/forums/algae/dinoflagellates-74614.html

 

[jones02]

Is it bad :s

 

[Salty Cracker]

It can be one of the worst pests in the saltwater system.  It's always present, but when it gets the right conditions it can really take over. 

Some fight it with blackouts, some with peroxide.  I personally have fought it, it was a nightmare.  I got them the first time I used reef crystals, which is why I've never used it since...

 

[jones02]

This is a rock with it on it.

 

[AdInfinitum]

For Dinos the "old school" answer for fish only tanks was a ten day blackout (meaning not just no lights, but wrap blankets around the tank, total darkness).  Otherwise skim really aggressively (really really wet) and large water changes every couple of days.  Make absolutely CERTAIN that your source water is silicate free.  Dino's don't need Diatoms to grow but they thrive when both are present.  Unlike other pest micro growths, Diatom growth is limited primarily by silicate availability not no3 or po4.  The familiar pattern of Diatom bloom and die-off in new tanks mimics the pattern of natural systems following spring melts.  The silicate rich effluents introduced into a dormant system triggers a Diatom bloom until the available silicates have been exhausted (bound in dead diatom skeletons).  One of the upsides of Kalk is that it precipitates silicates out of the water that you dissolve it in (part of the sludge left in the bottom).  High ph limits the availability of silicate and also generally inhibits Dino propagation.  So along with the water changes, drip some Kalk to keep your ph up through the water changes and if anything let it creep up gradually towards 8.4 (test test test) until the population collapses.  Then you can allow ph to creep gradually back to normal.

On the other hand there is probably a more modern, much easier way to deal with them now that someone else can tell you....

BTW...I use Reef Crystals currently after literally decades using original I/O. Any change can upset the balance and cause or kill a bloom....There are endless stories that go 'So after using salt x forever, I tried salt y and got Diatoms/Cyano/Dinos/Whatever...Threw the rest of it out and tried salt z, problem disappeared so it must have come from salt y.  That said I am thinking about trying the Tropic Marine Pro next time....

 

[Salty Cracker]

For Dinos the \"old school\" answer for fish only tanks was a ten day blackout (meaning not just no lights, but wrap blankets around the tank, total darkness).  Otherwise skim really aggressively (really really wet) and large water changes every couple of days.  Make absolutely CERTAIN that your source water is silicate free.  Dino's don't need Diatoms to grow but they thrive when both are present.  Unlike other pest micro growths, Diatom growth is limited primarily by silicate availability not no3 or po4.  The familiar pattern of Diatom bloom and die-off in new tanks mimics the pattern of natural systems following spring melts.  The silicate rich effluents introduced into a dormant system triggers a Diatom bloom until the available silicates have been exhausted (bound in dead diatom skeletons).  One of the upsides of Kalk is that it precipitates silicates out of the water that you dissolve it in (part of the sludge left in the bottom).  High ph limits the availability of silicate and also generally inhibits Dino propagation.  So along with the water changes, drip some Kalk to keep your ph up through the water changes and if anything let it creep up gradually towards 8.4 (test test test) until the population collapses.  Then you can allow ph to creep gradually back to normal.

On the other hand there is probably a more modern, much easier way to deal with them now that someone else can tell you....

BTW...I use Reef Crystals currently after literally decades using original I/O. Any change can upset the balance and cause or kill a bloom....There are endless stories that go 'So after using salt x forever, I tried salt y and got Diatoms/Cyano/Dinos/Whatever...Threw the rest of it out and tried salt z, problem disappeared so it must have come from salt y.  That said I am thinking about trying the Tropic Marine Pro next time....

Oddly enough, that was exactly my case, IO forever, then tried reef crystals, and BOOM.... dinos.  I switched to tropic marin (and dosed peroxide for 10 days) and it finally went away.

That stuff on the rocks is exactly what I had.  If I turned off the pumps I could see it floating through the water like spiderwebs.  It would stick to almost every frag in the system, and most corals stayed closed for the duration. 

I did a 3 day blackout and added 14ml of H202 per dayfor ~10 days.  I personally did not see any affect to anything in the tank except the dinos by adding H202, however I don't know as if I would do it again, I think it really just needed to run its course, and I needed to continue my good husbandry of the tank. 

 

[jones02]

I'm almost out of salt so I was chaging that anyways, any suggestions? Was thinking H20 ocean? How big of a water changhe should I do? 60g 40g sump. And would my corals and fish be fine doing a black out? Would I still feed them? And should I add gfo when I do this or is that to much change all at once?

 

[spyd]

If it is just on one rock, can you remove the rock without aking a part your entire setup? If you can, that would be the best move. Scrub it down to the nines and let it sit in a bucket of SW with no light for quite sometime and the problem will go away. Better than having it spread all over your tank because it is very difficult to get rid of.

 

[unibob]

Would running a diatom filter help in the case he couldn't move that rock?

 

[jones02]

Its only like 4 rocks now, I have been taking ito ut and scrubbing it them putting it back, all over the sand aswell.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Dinos are in the water column, not growing on rock like hair algae.  Scrubbing just removes the part that has settled. 

Do a lot of reading on dinoflagellates, https://sites.google.com/site/botany317/session-2/eukaryotes/session-3/alveolates/dinoflagellates
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2011/05/how-i-beat-dinoflagellates.html
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/t_crail.html
http://www.uberfrags.net/forums/showthread.php?5132-Dinoflagellates-Wiping-out-my-reef-tank


Also, I've never thought that taking rocks out and scrubbing them were at all a good idea, cure the cause not the result.  Unfortunately, these are not an easy fix, and since they are always present in the system, it can happen to almost anyone...

 

[Blob-79]

Im pretty sure I had dinos awhile ago..I did nothing. Thought it was a "brown cyano" lol.. Hence my guess identification of " sounds like brown cyano lol.  So ya, I did nothing..and its gone now.

Im a big believer in doing nothing   shit will balance itself out if you let it...and your actually not doing anything to cause it of course.  Dont take my word on it though..I dont know anything about dinos

 

[Petercar (RIP Dec 2017)]

Blob......Dino's ruled the earth millions of years ago...did yu not watch  Jurassic park?...

 

[jones02]

so all this reading and i came up with that it can still be a bunch of different things. raise the ph and run carbon. keep the lights off for a full day then 4 hours a day after that to control the bloom. or wait it out.. well i been waiting and that isnt working so im going to run carbon and raise the ph and leave the lights off in the dt but leave my fuge lights on. but 1 thing i dont understand is, they say this will kill any algea grazers.. well all my snails are eating away at it and there all alive and eating live pigs? and what damage would raising the ph do?

 

[jones02]

Or instead of carbon ill use chemi pure elite so it will alsopull out other organic stuff I don't want in there.

 

[jones02]

I just did some tests and phosphates are detectable and ammonia is 0 alk. 5.88 ph is 7.8 so I really can use it to go up more, I have some kent marine superbuffer I been reading up on how to use and I think I'm going to start adding it a little each day to bring it up and throw a reactor on with gfo or chemi pire elite? Not sure what one?

 

[spyd]

Try to raise your ALK to 7 or so as it is fairly low right now. You definitely want to up your ph to about 8.2 or so. But you have to test it at the same time every day as your ph will fluctuate. GFO will take care of the phosphates. You can always use a mesh bag for carbon if you don't want to run 2 reactors. Snails are very sensitive to ph swings. It is fine if you raise it slowly, however, if you are raising your ph levels well past 8.2 then I don't think they will survive.

 

[jones02]

Its been 24 hours so I tested again.. Alk is at 6.88 now, ph only went up .1 to 7.9 I left the lights off and it cleared up a lot! It isn't really long floating around. Worried about my corals tho :s

 

[jones02]

So 48hours later and here is that same rock. I really don't think it was dino at all. Cuz it all went away in my tank.