Dumb Question.....

[davesolo29]

A lot of guys cut the tile to make frag discs. So shouldn't be any issues.


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[Nonuser]

why not use a inch thick sheet of marinepure?

 

[Kman]

OP yes tap water to rinse is fine. You will not get it fully clean so don't try. Just a quick rinse in a bucket to get the crap and dust out. If your tank is full you can empty most of the water and then put it in to cut down on cloudy water. Or you can scoop it in with the water. Within a few days it should be clear again. You will have some substrate dissolve into the water when it is fine so you might want to add a little more then you thought you need to make up for it. I normally don't dose calcium the week I add fine substrate as it dissolves and it raises your calcium anyway.

I myself am not a fan of bare bottom. Even a fine layer of substrate is productive at processing waste and is a breeding ground for planktonic life that rise up into the water column after the lights come on. As well as it adds a layer of buffer protection for your system to help against PH and alk swings. But really it comes down to personal preference.

 

[BigReefer]

Kman you bring up some great points i never thought of
.. thank you for expressing your opinion

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[Kman]

You are welcome.

In a smaller tank where fluctuations are compounded by the smaller water volume it is important to set the tank up so it cuts down on these. This kind of planning add up for long term health of the tank. The less amount of rock work in smaller tanks gives (I am generalizing here) the food web less places to breed and grow and hide from predation. So a thin layer of substrate goes a long way in my opinion.

Some people like to say it is easier to keep clean. To me how is blowing off detritus regularly and scraping algae off of the glass so it looks clean easier then me once a week if I remember stirring the top layer a little? It is not that is how! lol

It is possible to run the tank without it, you just don't get the added bonus of buffer, nutrient processing and food web.

 

[kjardine519]

for a bare bottom frag tank I used textured spray-paint on the bottom, followed by a flat light brown camo paint bought at Canadian tire. looks like sand and very easy to keep the bottom clean! most tanks don't have very much co2 to break down the aragonite sand for a buffer IMO

 

[Quartapound]

For what it's worth, I have a bare bottom, never scrape algae off the bottom glass, there is no algae on the bottom glass, the snails take care of it, only coralline, same goes for detritus, if you set up the flow properly nothing ever settles to necessitate cleaning up.

I think most people choose to go bare bottom for the same reason @Kman said to go sandbed... to help ensure success long term... Avoid 'old tank syndrome' and also avoid issues which would arise if a sand bed has been neglected then disturbed.

I've never lost a coral that's fallen onto the bottom of the tank or had a dead spot where it came into contact with my 'substrate'...

I think it's widely accepted that you need a deep sand bed with anaerobic zones to do any real nutrient processing.

I would also say it's been proven that the sand bed does offer some degree of buffering capacity... and also adds lots of space for critters to hide and grow...

When it comes down to it I'd say it's a personal decision neither way is right nor wrong, each with their benefits and drawbacks.

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[Nonuser]

For what it's worth, I have a bare bottom, never scrape algae off the bottom glass, there is no algae on the bottom glass, the snails take care of it, only coralline, same goes for detritus, if you set up the flow properly nothing ever settles to necessitate cleaning up.

I think most people choose go bare bottom for the same reason @Kman said to go sandbed... to help ensure success long term... Avoid 'old tank syndrome' and also avoid issues which would arise if a sand bed has been neglected then disturbed.

I've never lost a coral that's fallen onto the bottom of the tank or had a dead spot where it came into contact with my 'substrate'...

I think it's widely accepted that you need a deep sand bed with anaerobic zones to do any real nutrient processing.

I would also say it's been proven that the sand bed does offer some degree of buffering capacity... and also adds lots of space for critters to hide and grow...

When it comes down to it I'd say it's a personal decision neither way is right nor wrong, each with their benefits and drawbacks.

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So how do you deal with the Live rock directly on the glass? How do you make sure it doesn't shift or move?

 

[Quartapound]

So how do you deal with the Live rock directly on the glass? How do you make sure it doesn't shift or move?

Carefully? lol, jk.

In all seriousness, I did put my rock directly onto the glass. Was it the right thing to do? I don't know. If you take proper care to ensure the rockwork is steady (by chipping off pieces necessary to let the rock "lock together" and not wobble against each other), or using epoxy, and/or acrylic rod, or not stacking things precariously, I think you can avoid any shifting or collapsing... I've also heard of people using acrylic rod drilled into the bottom of the rock to stand it off the bottom of the tank, and let flow go underneath to avoid any detritus settling under there... which would probably make quite a stable base.

You also have no sand which would allow burrowing fish/critters to create hollow spots under the rock work and cause a cave-in (although I think you're not supposed to put the rock on top of the sand precisely for this reason)

 

[Nonuser]

Expoxy live rock directly to aquarium glass. Check

 

[BigReefer]

wow .. i was really hoping this would be a easy decision but i have a feeling that its not so much as i would think it would be " easy" ...

 

[unibob]

@BigReefer, I believe you have Hawaiian black live sand. Check the bag (if you haven't already rinsed and added)


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[unibob]

why not use a inch thick sheet of marinepure?

Marine pure catches dietrius too much to have as a "substrate"


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[Nonuser]

Marine pure catches dietrius too much to have as a "substrate"


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How would it be any worse than live rock? I was under the impression it acts the same as live rock but just super porous giving it more area then simple standard live rock. I thought the beneficial bacteria would feed of the dietrius. So when using marine pure in a sump you must power wash it periodically?

 

[BigReefer]

your correct Unibob I do ... I was just looking at all my opinions


I dont know whats"best"

 

[davesolo29]

When I did my last tank move I used a 75 gallon temporary tank and it was bare bottom. I don't know that I'd do it again without at least painting the bottom or something. My fish kept trying to attack their mirror images and we're getting stressed out.


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[AdInfinitum]

How would it be any worse than live rock? I was under the impression it acts the same as live rock but just super porous giving it more area then simple standard live rock. I thought the beneficial bacteria would feed of the dietrius. So when using marine pure in a sump you must power wash it periodically?

Not worse than live rock...the same... you wouldn't want to cover the bottom of the tank in live rock either for the same reason.

The marine pure in your sump would only see water that has been physically filtered by socks etc. If you run no physical filtration or minimally a settling tank, then yes live rock or marine pure would need to be flushed in SW regularly to remove detritus build up.

 

[Kman]

I agree it really is a personal decision in the end, both with or without work it just depends on what you want.

This section is based on my experience and opinion.

It is funny people get worried about old tank syndrome so they worry about the sand bed causing an issue. Let me tell you from experience this is not very likely if you maintain the bed. In fact it is more likely for the person to crash their tank doing something dumb then this happening. My bed has been up and running for over 20 years as I have been using the same 180 tank and it has not caused old tank syndrome. The bed is so old it breaks down and adds small amounts of calcium daily. So when people use the excuse beds will cause an issue long term as a main reason not to use any, it is based on the flawed premise that it will most of the time cause an issue down the road. If you think about it you will see a lot of the new reefer's in the hobby today take their tanks down at the 2 year mark or even less because they are bored, they crashed their tank or they get out of the hobby. A lot of people will take their tanks down and change it long before any issue has occurred. I have seen this time and time again over the years.

Don't get me wrong if people don't want any bed don't use any as things will still work. But people shouldn't base their decision not to use any based on the flawed reasoning beds cause long term issues. Because maintained beds don't usually. Personally I have noticed people without a bottom have more issues long term then ones that use it. Because some of the people with no beds are under the impression that beds cause issues long term and they don't have one so they get to comfortable thinking they are ok when they are not and they get lazy. Ask @EricTMah I am sure he will agree with my experiences and has seen the same things.

Another misconception I will weigh in on that is common and not really accurate is only deep sand beds do any real nutrient processing. While a DSB is one of the most efficient ways at removing waste as far as beds go because of the different zones, so to is as little as an inch of bed. It is just less efficient and less aggressive at removed nutrients then a DSB. In the end it is still more efficient then no bed as most beds that are maintained don't add to the nutrient load but take away. If someone gets lazy and the bed does cause issues that is totally the persons fault not the beds. I have tested both with and without and based on my long term experience I will always run a bed. Just some food for thought when people are deciding to use substrate or not.

 

[EricTMah]

I agree it really is a personal decision in the end, both with or without work it just depends on what you want.

This section is based on my experience and opinion.

It is funny people get worried about old tank syndrome so they worry about the sand bed causing an issue. Let me tell you from experience this is not very likely if you maintain the bed. In fact it is more likely for the person to crash their tank doing something dumb then this happening. My bed has been up and running for over 20 years as I have been using the same 180 tank and it has not caused old tank syndrome. The bed is so old it breaks down and adds small amounts of calcium daily. So when people use the excuse beds will cause an issue long term as a main reason not to use any, it is based on the flawed premise that it will most of the time cause an issue down the road. If you think about it you will see a lot of the new reefer's in the hobby today take their tanks down at the 2 year mark or even less because they are bored, they crashed their tank or they get out of the hobby. A lot of people will take their tanks down and change it long before any issue has occurred. I have seen this time and time again over the years.

Don't get me wrong if people don't want any bed don't use any as things will still work. But people shouldn't base their decision not to use any based on the flawed reasoning beds cause long term issues. Because maintained beds don't usually. Personally I have noticed people without a bottom have more issues long term then ones that use it. Because some of the people with no beds are under the impression that beds cause issues long term and they don't have one so they get to comfortable thinking they are ok when they are not and they get lazy. Ask @EricTMah I am sure he will agree with my experiences and has seen the same things.

Another misconception I will weigh in on that is common and not really accurate is only deep sand beds do any real nutrient processing. While a DSB is one of the most efficient ways at removing waste as far as beds go because of the different zones, so to is as little as an inch of bed. It is just less efficient and less aggressive at removed nutrients then a DSB. In the end it is still more efficient then no bed as most beds that are maintained don't add to the nutrient load but take away. If someone gets lazy and the bed does cause issues that is totally the persons fault not the beds. I have tested both with and without and based on my long term experience I will always run a bed. Just some food for thought when people are deciding to use substrate or not.

I don't support anything this crazy reefer has to say lol
@Kman is correct in his above statement. Also like he said, many different ways to be successful in this hobby.
I am a firm believer in dsb somewhere in your system. Either in the dt or fuge. The benefits out weigh the maintenance.


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[Kman]

Damn crazy reefers!! ;p

It is nice to have options in this hobby. So many different ways.