Marine Ich

[iantower]

Well I don't have it in my tank unfortunately my brothers new tank does.
So does anyone have any experience with this?
It seems to me that its a DT breakdown to catch all the fish and get them to a QT.
The two things I have heard about are copper treatments, which as saltwater  keepers just that word scares the hell out of us.
And second hyposalinity treatment in a QT tank, where we bring the salinity down to 1.010 for 6 weeks.
My brother is under the impression that a cleaner wrasse will do the job but Ive read that the parasite is under the skin and though the the cleaner wrasse may pick at the area its actually just eating off the dead skin and not actually getting to the parasite.
So what does everyone think?
If it were me I think Id just let it run its course and hope for the best because I don't know if the DT breakdown is worth the stress on the reef and losing corals isn't something Id go for.

Cheers Guys!

 

[Cal_stir]

been there, done that
hyposalinity is best, copper is very toxic
fish must be moved to qt, 1.009sg(refractometer a must)for 14 days, slowly change 2 points per day, temp 82, infected tank must remain fishless for 8 weeks to ensure the parasite has cycled thru
this treatment works 100 percent

 

[fishit]

Had it bad back about a year ago all I did is get a cleaner rass I lost more trying to move them then just leaving them allon with the rass

 

[shayneh]

Fishit I gotta disagree with you....Firstly running out and buying a fish and dumping it in the tank could be the cause of more parasitic problems so by the time you get a wrasse and properly qt it the other fish are toast. Also adding another fish to the tank causes as much stress as netting and transferring everything to a qt. Then there is my personal aversion to cleaner wrasses in captivity, they are difficult to maintain, and leave sections of the reef unserviced as they clean hundreds/thousands of fish daily in the wild. Little FYI all wrasses as juveniles will clean other fish but even a true cleaner won't actually eat the ich. If you absolutley must add livestock then get a cleaner shrimp or neon goby (look the same as a cleaner wrasse but dietary requirements are much more tank friendly).

Iantower I strongly suggest either using Cals method or soak food in garlic and cross your fingers. You could also add a uv sterilizer but it won't kill everything.....Good luck!

Would also suggest that instead of chasing everthing in the tank with a net that you make a basic fish trap. Even a clear plastic bottle with opening large enough for fish and a string tied to it with some food in the bottom let it sit and when fish swim in you pull the string tilting the bottle up.

 

[fishit]

Yes they are hard to keep but it worked for me but if you're going to screw around trying to catch the fish and move them when there already on the brink of death I'll guaranty you'll kill them all I have 2 cleaner shrimp and they won't even touch a fish now with the wrass in there now catching them all in a trap good luck most fish will not eat during an ich outbreak so how you going to lure them in?????

 

[shayneh]

LOL come to think of it I have no clue since I have "NEVER" had a full blown outbreak (knock on wood). I would hope things haven't progressed to the point that the fish are lethargic and refusing to eat. If the fish are still eating some food soaked in garlic will definitely get them in there as I have used this trick many times successfully.

Patience is key, but I would rather sit and watch a bottle in the tank for an hour or 2 to catch a fish than rip everything apart and stress the crap out of everything or (my usual screw up) bouncing a rock off the tank and scratching it.

 

[Blob-79]

Ya I wish I could give advice, Ive been very lucky as well. anything I say would just be things ive read in my travels. I know hypo salinity is the best bet as far as treatment goes, thing is, for really any treatment to work, its gotta be caught early.  As far as cleaner wrasses go...I dont think I would buy one for the same reason shayneh has mentioned. But as alot of things are, this comes down to personal oppinion

 

[fishit]

well i mostly keep tangs so you all know how prone they are but as Ive found put a wrasse in there and many of your problems will be solved and yes cleaner wrasse do eat parasites that's y so many people have such a hard time keeping a cleaner wrasse because they clean all the parasites then starv to death the only way you get one to live is if you can get one to eat frozen food also but with tangs they are a must

 

[Blob-79]

with tangs they are a must

Ya I think ive read that tangs actually always have ich, no clue how true that is. But I cant agree with the statement I quoted. I have 2 tangs..neither of which has ever shown any symptoms ever. Not sure if its luck, or something that im doing without knowing it...I keep my tank a little warmer then most, I know that effects the life cycle of ich, and keeps it from spreading.  who knows.

 

[MDGraves]

Blob- what temp do you keep your system at?

 

[Blob-79]

Im normally in around 80-84 low being winter high being summer

 

[MDGraves]

Wow, I have been getting so much different info on temp, I need to start a thread in the new to the hobby section on temp settings

 

[Blob-79]

Woot another debate on the way!! lol

seriously though, you can keep temp at anything that is around natural temp. same as salinity. The key to these factors is keeping them constant.

 

[Cal_stir]

[quote author=fishit link=topic=826.msg5071#msg5071 date=1302122164]
with tangs they are a must

Ya I think ive read that tangs actually always have ich, no clue how true that is. But I cant agree with the statement I quoted. I have 2 tangs..neither of which has ever shown any symptoms ever. Not sure if its luck, or something that im doing without knowing it...I keep my tank a little warmer then most, I know that effects the life cycle of ich, and keeps it from spreading.  who knows.
[/quote]
ich cycles faster in higher temp, i have a yellow tang and have not ever had ich in my display, knocking on my qt
i have read that if a tank is ichless for 18 months then it is ich free, but i've also read that ich is always present waiting for a chance to strike, personnally i don't believe the latter.

 

[shayneh]

Same here... I have had many different types of tangs Regal Blue, Atlantic Blue, Yellow, Powder Brown, Powder Blue, Tomini, Scopas. They have all got a couple spots from time to time but I never had an outbreak so bad that they stopped eating and perished.

I figured it was always present just waiting to strike if I let things slide (which was good as it kept me vigilant on upkeep).

 

[fishit]

yes tangs always carry ich it can not be killed!!! some will ich when stressed some wont my 2 yellow tangs never ich same with my naso and scopas but me regal <blue hippo and powder blue will show spots from time to time but the wrasse pics them off and good to go most of my experience is with tangs so i can only speak about them never experienced ich with any other fish than tangs but if you are going to keep any tangs i would suggest having a cleaner wrasse and yes garlick dossing does work vary well but as a preventive not as a cure you cant boost there immune system over night the ich will kill them first    o and dont use any of those stupid rid ich or any of that shit it does not work dont waist your money the only other cure is copper but not in your display

 

[shayneh]

Fishit there is still a great deal of debate on whether Ich is always present or not and it currently boils down to individual opinions. The only time I've seen Ich get out of control is in stressed/unhealthy fish (tank too small for individual fish, nutritional needs not met etc.). Hypothetically if the Ich became a whole body affliction the wrasse will still only eat the Ich on the surface of the skin they won't get the parasites that have burrowed into the skin or the gills. Given the additional stress to the system by adding another fish (restructuring the heirarchy in the tank and who gets what section of the tank) and waiting for the wrasse to feel comfortable enough to start cleaning again (if it doesn't die, jump, or add more problems with any parasites it might have), considering the call for cleaner wrasses to be banned from harvesting for the aquarium trade altogether (from eco-conscious and far more knowledgeable marine aquarists than all of us combined). I still disagree and don't see the promotion of a cleaner wrasse for Ich treatment as a viable option. The only options for keeping ich out of the tank are proper initial quarantine methods, and removal to hyposalinity treatment if it does appear. Otherwise you might as well just add garlic, cross your fingers, and hope for the best.

I am curious why you didn't address the other option I presented (if someone feels they absolutely must add a fish) which is the neon goby? There are tons of pages on the net similar to this one (below) that recommend the neon goby over the cleaner wrasse and some even claim the neon goby does a better job. They can be now be bought as aquacultured specimens (ORA) which are already used to tank conditions (better odds of survival) and doesn't remove a beneficial cleaner from our oceans. 

http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-exclusives/fama/cleaner-wrasse.aspx

 

[fishit]

First off a neon goby only has a life span of about 1 year and are hard to get i have never actually seen a neon goby in a fish store from hear to toronto that's not saying they haven't had them but i have seen many many cleaner wrasse in stores.... hens the hard to get part but nor hear nor there.. now this article you just posted is not a good source to be pulling your info from eather it said cleaner wrasse are impossible to keep in any tank other than a 2000 gal well that's bull shit i must be a magician than be cause according to that statement of incredible research its magic mine is alive and Ive had 3 now not one has ever jumped the tank and i successfully kept 2 out of three that's a pretty good percentage compared to what your article said witch is 100 percent mortality rate and plus i know many others with wrasse alive and well... but again there is nothing wrong with a neon goby but they are not guaranteed to clean short life spann and hard to find.   

and yes it is provven that ich is carried in tangs you say your self your fish ich from time to time well ich only has a life span of about 8 weeks max so if you have not adid anything in say 8 weeks and your fish shows a couple ich spots where do you think they come from must be the magic again lol the dead come back to life ha ha ha

quarantine and hypo salinity great idea y not just lock your self in a closet for god knows how long when you get sick and well i don't know what to compar it to but lets say.. cut your oxygen down <specific gravity> and will see how stressed you get that's my thought on that stuff    by the way guys nothing personal just a debate no hard feelings!!!!

 

[blaked]

even after using a high concentration of malchalite green on my domino damsel the ich still multiplied,.
i froze the damsel after almost blinding it with medicine. i was worried about my clowns in my dt,
  so i made some boiled water and fresh organic garlic and a leef of aloe and added 3 teaspoons to my dt. sure the tank smells like garlic for 3 days ....but my clowns are healthy and their damaged fins healed in 4 days !! and no ich so far. been 5 weeks !

 

[Blob-79]

ouch..

like I mentioned earlier It comes down to personal oppinion. Some wouldnt hesitate to throw tap water in for their daily dose of copper.

both sides of this argument have some valid points, and both sides have conjecture. Hypo salinity for one...isnt reducing the fishes ability to breath. basically think of it this way..if you were to be in a room watching tv 24/7, imagine the temperature raising, say .2 degrees a day. Over the course of 25 days you would have no clue that the temperature changed by 5 degrees. Its acclimation. It is the most stress free..method.

Sure its possible tang always have ich..its what I always though..with no proof though. However they also have immune systems that keep it at bay. If you are having ongoing battles with ich..enouph to justify keeping a cleaner wrasse...you need to find the cause of this immune deficiency. Fish with Ich are stressed...so no point arguing that you dont want to catch them for qt because you dont want to stress them.

It makes sence to me..fuck the symptoms..fix the cause.