Speedy And Invisible Killer

[AdInfinitum]

IME over the years most tank meltdowns/crashes are caused by a snowball effect rather than a single smoking gun...

Something kills a fish or some inverts...the dying and decomposition spikes ammonia and kills the next most sensitive creature....more ammonia ....kills the next most sensetive thing and or triggers a disease outbreak....sustained ammonia presence starts a major die off of all the invisible creatures (worms etc.) In the sand bed and live rock.....ammonia soars everything dies except one clown or something..start over....

 

[jeffopentax]

IME over the years most tank meltdowns/crashes are caused by a snowball effect rather than a single smoking gun...

Something kills a fish or some inverts...the dying and decomposition spikes ammonia and kills the next most sensitive creature....more ammonia ....kills the next most sensetive thing and or triggers a disease outbreak....sustained ammonia presence starts a major die off of all the invisible creatures (worms etc.) In the sand bed and live rock.....ammonia soars everything dies except one clown or something..start over....

That sounds like a possibility, but not sure that 's the case this time . The first fish to die was a 3" scopas tang. That was on Feb. 20. 4 days later, my 4.5" emperor was dead. And the list goes on... I was able to take out all but 2 of the dead fish, the 3" scopas and a 2" tomato clown. They apparently made good snacks for the other fish. The others were still intact by the time i got to them. I have no idea how long it takes a dead fish to give off ammonia, but it seems unlikely a dead 3" tang could give off enough ammonia to take out a fat emperor 4 days later.


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[heath]

but there has to have something to start the cycle of death. What I was talking about was start at the beginning and working your way back, just a thought, if the ro unit has malfunctioned then would it not be putting the crap back into the water. did anyone do any research on stray voltage affecting corals.

 

[jeffopentax]

but there has to have something to start the cycle of death. What I was talking about was start at the beginning and working your way back, just a thought, if the ro unit has malfunctioned then would it not be putting the crap back into the water. did anyone do any research on stray voltage affecting corals.

I don't think it is the ro unit, since everything was fine for nearly 2 months after i started using it. As for corals and voltage/current, the debate rages on, just like the usefulness of a grounding probe.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2090291


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[saltyair]

Are you running carbon? Change it if you are - add some if your not.
Check your mixing buckets - I had a buddy that had use a bucket the wife used to clean the floors .


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[AdInfinitum]

I came home from holidays last summer to a couple of SPS colonies that had RTN/STN'd and a few other SPS that didn't look good. When I reached into the tank I got a jolt that put me on my butt. One pump not on the gfci (of course) had a cracked housing, water params were normal for my system...fish, LPS, most SPS were unaffected. I do believe that the current likely caused the corals losses but it was extreme and most things were fine.....

 

[jeffopentax]

Not quite sure what to make of things right now. My sailfin tang and toby puffer look great and are very active. Both only 3-4". My bird wrasse is in his cave, which i can see into well enough to see if he's alive. My 3ft zebra eel has very cloudy eyes, but otherwise appears normal. So, 2 in seemingly perfect health, one with cloudy eyes, one either resting when he normally isn't, or dead. So damn frustrating!


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[EricTMah]

So what have you actually done to the tank since starting this thread?

There's been a few really good suggestions to help solve the issue. If you've done any of them please let us know. If what you have done hasn't helped or made things worse or better. You need to let us know to help narrow things down.

 

[jeffopentax]

So what have you actually done to the tank since starting this thread?

There's been a few really good suggestions to help solve the issue. If you've done any of them please let us know. If what you have done hasn't helped or made things worse or better. You need to let us know to help narrow things down.

Haven't been able to do much. Unplugged heater, have changed about 40g of water over last couple days (pretty much out of salt!). Added nitraguard this morning, which will have zero effect right now, but didn't notice any type of sensation when i had my hands in sump. And i just noticed the bird wrasse is still alive, moving a little slower than usual.


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[jeffopentax]

Just occured to me, my source water isn't the problem. My daughter's 29g tank is doing fine (knock on wood), and it has no filtration, just weekly water change.


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[EricTMah]

Can you run some carbon in the system?

This won't affect your tank. But did you soak your nitra guard overnight before using it?



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[jeffopentax]

Can you run some carbon in the system?

This won't affect your tank. But did you soak your nitra guard overnight before using it?

Is there a way to run carbon other than a reactor? Yes, i did soak the nitraguard as per the instructions


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[EricTMah]

Place the carbon in a filter bag or a nylon, rinse it well. Then put the bag in the sump where water can pass through it. Not as effective. But will be better than nothing

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[jeffopentax]

Place the carbon in a filter bag or a nylon, rinse it well. Then put the bag in the sump where water can pass through it. Not as effective. But will be better than nothing

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Ok. Carbon is one of the few things i can actually get here!


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[heath]

that's good that you have ruled out one of the million things, water source...I noticed that someone mentioned that their buddies wife used the water pail to wash floors, could that be something that might have happened.. has any of your equipment been used for anything other than the tank.
there was a link here about marine velvet can't remember everything but the link is; www.chucksaddiction.com ,I think, might be worth checking out..if we all put our heads together and figure this out then we will know what to do in the future..How long ago did you add anything to the tank. what was it and where did it come from..maybe you brought something home that you were not planning on..

 

[saltyair]

Jeff can you help us help you
What size tank? Water volume?
Skimmer?
Carbon?
Dsb?
Nh3?,no3? No2? Salinity?
flow - how much ?
water turnover rate?

last three things you did before issues started
What have you done so far.

 

[jeffopentax]

Jeff can you help us help you

I guess I have been bouncing all over the place with details! Here's how it stands as of lastnight:

Tank size - 140g (36"x36"x25")
Total water volume - approx. 160g
Skimmer - Bubble Magus Curve 7 (rated for 185-240g)
Flow - Mag 9.5 return, 1 wp-40
Sandbed - approx. 3"

Salinity - 1.024
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 160+
Ph - 8
Testing done with API, so may not be accurate!

Here is what I've done since beginning of January, at which point things were fine as far as I could tell:

Switched to rodi (daughters tank doing well with same water)
Switched from vertex in250 skimmer to bubble magus. Skimmate is much darker and constant than with vertex.
Added 4, 24" t5. Previously had only 2, 36" t5. Also added fully enclosed canopy.

January 23 - added coral beauty and scopas tang from Incredible Aquarium

February 7 - added 4-5" emperor angel from fellow reefer

February 13 - added yellowhead goby and tomato clown from Living Aquarium. Seahare from scubasteve.

February 17 - scopas unexpectedly died, and the die off began

I think about 6 fish have died since. Foxface being the last on Friday.

Since Friday, I've added airstone w/nitraguard, unplugged heater (temp staying surprisingly stable, between 78-80), done roughly 40g water change, spread over a few days. Will be adding carbon tomorrow.

Bird wrasse looks to be on way out (cloudy eyes, not eating, lethargic), eel has cloudy eyes and won't eat (VERY bad sign!), toby puffer and sailfin tang look great, are active, and eating like pigs as always.

I think that covers it. Let me know if i was unclear about anything.



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[EricTMah]

With your water changes. Have you vacuumed the crushed coral at all?

160+ no3 is pretty high even for a fowlr. I'd recommend doing another larger water change with a gavel vacuum to help reduce some of the waste that has collected in the crushed coral. I'd perform the water change and gravel vacuum before adding the carbon to the system.

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[jeffopentax]

With your water changes. Have you vacuumed the crushed coral at all?

160+ no3 is pretty high even for a fowlr. I'd recommend doing another larger water change with a gavel vacuum to help reduce some of the waste that has collected in the crushed coral. I'd perform the water change and gravel vacuum before adding the carbon to the system.

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That's why I've started nitraguard. Hopefully that will help alleviate it a bit. I'm not sure about vacuuming, as I'm sure i will lose a lot of sand in the process. Although, it seems solving this problem is going to cost quite a bit of money, so what 's another $50?


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[heath]

it always cost us money, either in equipment, supplies or fish. I would take equipment and supplies over fish, I get attached to all of my guys..