Stray Voltage

[blaked]

just checked my tank, got 34 volts in it...... mabye thats why my fish are contantlu yawning....... heater, 3 pumps all giving off 8 to 11 volts...
any one ever put a multi meter in there tank?
dont know whether to put a gound probe in the tank would be a good idea then a current would be established? and prove even more fatal ?
  need info, and ive searched the web for hours with some say probe it some say leave it.. ?
ANY ONE ? ? ?

 

[lewis844]

you should leave it nothing in your tank is effected by it it cant harm your fish they are not grounded to anything

i have stray voltage you can sometimes feel when reaching into the tank

 

[Blob-79]

ya whatever you do, do NOT ground your tank this will only prove how well saltwater conducts electricity

 

[shayneh]

34volts can be a lot depending on amperage since I have personally seen a Bell telephone guy thrown across a room from a 12volt telephone line and a fellow worker rip all the muscles in his arm from a 6volt wire while we were fixing a robotic welder. Call me crazy but wouldn't isolating the source/s and getting them out of the tank be a better idea? What are you going to do if one day you are the ground (other than tense up... pee/crap yourself... and have a heart attack all at the same time). Don't know if you have kids or a partner but how awesome would that be for them to watch? There should be no detectable amount of electricity in your water. Although there are some free electrons that will naturally jump from the sources of energy in our tanks to the water they should be undetectable to conventional multimeters. I would unplug each item in the tank one by one and toss the ones that are since the epoxy or wires waterproof coating has been compromised....and it will only get worse with time.

Also "ALL" tanks, pools ponds etc. by electrical code should have a ground probe that is connected through a GCFI. This way if a heater breaks and we stick our hand in the tank and bump our elbow on something like say the grounded light above the tank the GCFI will detect that excess electricity has "gone to ground" and trip. If you don't have a ground probe and GCFI you would become the path that the electricity takes to return to it's maker (power generation station) and so do you (if you believe that stuff). 

Oh and less importantly than your life it is also believed that stray voltage is attributed to HLLE in fish and RTN in corals.

I am trying to be funny here but this is a serious problem.

 

[Blob-79]

34volts can be a lot depending on amperage since I have personally seen a Bell telephone guy thrown across a room from a 12volt telephone line and a fellow worker rip all the muscles in his arm from a 6volt wire while we were fixing a robotic welder. Call me crazy but wouldn't isolating the source/s and getting them out of the tank be a better idea? What are you going to do if one day you are the ground (other than tense up... pee/crap yourself... and have a heart attack all at the same time). Don't know if you have kids or a partner but how awesome would that be for them to watch? There should be no detectable amount of electricity in your water. Although there are some free electrons that will naturally jump from the sources of energy in our tanks to the water they should be undetectable to conventional multimeters. I would unplug each item in the tank one by one and toss the ones that are since the epoxy or wires waterproof coating has been compromised....and it will only get worse with time.

Also \"ALL\" tanks, pools ponds etc. by electrical code should have a ground probe that is connected through a GCFI. This way if a heater breaks and we stick our hand in the tank and bump our elbow on something like say the grounded light above the tank the GCFI will detect that excess electricity has \"gone to ground\" and trip. If you don't have a ground probe and GCFI you would become the path that the electricity takes to return to it's maker (power generation station) and so do you (if you believe that stuff). 

Oh and less importantly than your life it is also believed that stray voltage is attributed to HLLE in fish and RTN in corals.

I am trying to be funny here but this is a serious problem.

qft

 

[shayneh]

LOL! Blob-79 I'm hoping that means "quoted for truth" as opposed to "quit f'in talking" cause I know it's not "quantum field theory" ha ha ha!

 

[pulpfiction1]

lol

 

[Blob-79]

blah haha.. didnt realize it had different meanings....You mean that what you were saying isnt quantum field theory?

 

[Cal_stir]

if you have stray voltage in your tank you should find the source an eliminate it! eventually it will be FULL voltage and then you will probably be able to smell it too! grounding the tank is a safety issue, it prevents unwanted electrocution, GFCI also prevent electrocution by sensing a ground fault. all aquarium electrical should be protected by GFCI's. also i'm pretty sure stray voltage can upset the ionic balance of seawater.

 

[Blob-79]

I just need to chime in once more.    When I said do NOT ground your tank...I meant it. not when you know you have stray voltage. Find the source and eliminate it like many have already said. After all is said and done, ya feel free to ground your tank.

 

[Cal_stir]

when you say it that way, then yes, I agree.

 

[shayneh]

LOL!

 

[blaked]

ok, all my devices throw out some voltage 34 combined,
and i know some brand new equip will do the same...
so, i did some research and if i do ground my tank i will acutaly create a "current" in my tank givin the electrons a path
and if the fish get in this path game over for them.

and some of my stuff is new since the summer, so i dont know how i can afford to start replacing all my equip.

ima just keep on doing the same until i can come up with a solution.

another thing is some ppl with a large set up that never ever tested for voltages found up to 70 volts in ther tank....

 

[1Zapped2shy]

In response to 34 V was it an Ac voltage or a Dc and to where was the reference to ground taken. With regards to GFI protection it is by code a must.  It will limit the lack/missing of return current for any connected device to < 10 mA to limit the current flow in any other path to ground the the neutral/return from any single phase device  or in other terms if 100mA is drawn by your pump and  >90 mA is not returned on the  neutral the GFI will trip and the current will not find an other path to ground eg through you and your heart and death.  What you are seeing is a digital voltmeter with a very high impedance able to read 34 V to Ground with no capacity to provide any current flow limited by source impedance.  It is the current flow through the body that kills the souce has to be able to continously supply  > 10 mA to be a killer. of more a concern is copper contamination of you water by using the wrong grounding probe and killing your inverts with small amounts of copper allowed to build up over time by electrion transfer with a bad/ non stainless steel ground.  Put everything on a GFI and test it every month like the directions say and you will not have any problems.

 

[shayneh]

Most grounding probes for aquarium usage are solid titanium rods and they are shielded so that you don't get any leaching from the stainless wires after the probe. The really good ones come with an additional grounding eyelet....and all this peace of mind comes with a hefty price tag of $20. Do not use a stainless steel wire in direct contact with the water as it will corrode and for obvious reasons don't use copper...... 

 

[shayneh]

I would argue also that it will require less than 10mA since in all probability it would result in a macroshock (current will be passing directly across you and the heart from hands to feet) and since your hand is immersed in water all the resistance your skin would normally provide has been negated (from 100000Ohms to less than 1000Ohms....I stole resistance levels from the NIOSH site....I'm not that smart!LOL!). Lethal supplies as low as 32volts have occured.

All it takes is an electrical shock like this for a fraction of a second to induce ventricular fibrillation which can still kill you if help isn't quickly available....  

 

[Cal_stir]

simply put, 10ma across the chest can kill you.
GFCI's do prevent this, ground probes don't.
ground probes keep your tank at the same potential as your house ground.
your house is grounded to the earth, the oceans are grounded to the earth, your tank should be grounded to the earth.