DINO BATTLE!!

[Zakk]

Anyone have any tips here, I'm getting frustrated....

I have an outbreak of brown stringy algae, very fast growing.  Has chased almost all the corals in except for a few, but it is growing on everything.  i can vaccum it out, and the substrate has more on it within an hour.  Here are my current tank stats (all with very new, or even multiple test kits)
ALK: 201
Ca: 440
Mg: 1350
NO2: 0
ORP:~350
NO3:~8
Salinity: 1.026
NH3: 0.00
PO4: 0.03

Now I have recently upgraded lighting and added in a bit more aragonite sand, but the lighting came about a week before the outbreak, and the sand about a week after.  I am running BRS hi cap GFO, and rox carbon.  Skimmer is skimming very wet, and either skims wet or not at all if I try to adjust.  I have stepped up water changes to 18g daily, vacuuming out the loose algae where possible (it stinks if left in a bucket for more than an hour). I will post a pic of the stuff below.

I did recently get some 'used' salt that may be suspect, when I run the checks on the mix they all are 0 except the ammonia which is supposed to be yellow or blue/green, but instead is milky white (maybe that is off the charts, I don't know). 

Lighting has been reduced to 8 hours per day, but an actinic strip runs for 10.  There is a ton of water movement in there (3 powerheads, 2 1300gph return pumps).  The sand and tank had been pristine for ~two weeks (I had neglected the tank and am bringing everything back from the brink).  Put it this way, the cyano and hair algae I had went away a lot quicker than this did when I improved my water parameters. 

Sorry for the long post, I just know some of you guys have really good tank results, and I'm scratching my head here, can't figure out what I'm missing.

 

[Blob-79]

Re: Nuisance algae

You probally arent missing anything. Your tank was unmaintained for some time. the rocks and substrate are probally leaching out nitrates and phosphates..the algae and all the media you have is using it so your tests arent showing it. give it time. and just keep on vacuuming

 

[Zakk]

Re: Nuisance algae

You probally arent missing anything. Your tank was unmaintained for some time. the rocks and substrate are probally leaching out nitrates and phosphates..the algae and all the media you have is using it so your tests arent showing it. give it time. and just keep on vacuuming

Okay, this does make sense, I even have a turf scrubber set up that is growing a LOT of algae (both green and brown on the same screen) and my chaeto is likely soon going to overgrow the refugium.  I keep looking at those and wondering where they're getting fed with levels at near 0.

It certainly would explain why phosphates can be 0.00 one day, and 0.05 the next (average of multiple tests as well). 

So how long can substrate and rock leach crap back into the water?  Is it proportional to how long and how high the levels were?  Phosphates were at .78 when I got my ass in gear and decided to bring the tank back from the brink....

Also, what do you think about running bio pellets at this point...best to let this run its course first?

 

[phi delt reefer]

Re: Nuisance algae

run pellets, the bacteria will help eat up the nitrates.

OR

daily water changes...

as you replace the water the sand and rock will leach out to try to equalize concentrations. Do 10% daily for the next couple of weeks.

hopefully you are using cheap salt

 

[estwing]

Re: Nuisance algae

what I think you have is diatom algae. You have to clean and remove as mush algae as you can and treat with PhosGuard. It removes silicate that keeps the diatom going. We had a breakout shortly after we set up our frag tanks and it did a good job of riding us of the pain. We sell it in the store but sure you can find in any lfs

 

[Blob-79]

Re: Nuisance algae

dont think ive ever seen diatoms string out.

 

[Darryl_V]

Re: Nuisance algae

dont think ive ever seen diatoms string out.

Agreed.......its cyano most likely.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Nuisance algae

run pellets, the bacteria will help eat up the nitrates.

OR

daily water changes...

as you replace the water the sand and rock will leach out to try to equalize concentrations. Do 10% daily for the next couple of weeks.

hopefully you are using cheap salt

Heh cost of salt is negligible against losing a tankful of corals..

Nitrates are reading 0 before and after water changes, I replaced 75% of bio balls a couple of days ago... I might start a small amount of the pellets in the reactor, but there is the warning of an algae bloom when starting pellets even on a 100% clean tank....

 

[Zakk]

Re: Nuisance algae

[quote author=Blob-79 link=topic=1318.msg8636#msg8636 date=1312481712]
dont think ive ever seen diatoms string out.

Agreed.......its cyano most likely.
[/quote]

I agree, although I had MASSIVE red cyano before, and it had completely cleared itself up when I got my phosphates down under .1.  This stuff has bubbles in it, so I do tend to think it's cyano.  I don't want to just dose with a cyano cure, I want to starve it out completely.  I just can't believe how quick it grows considering my phosphates are so low (not 0 yet, but low).  I had considered silicates, but don't think that's it.  I'm definitely not over feeding, but not starving anything, any frozen food is rinsed in RO water before going in the tank.  I am favouring the theory that it's just leaching out of everything now that the numbers in the water levels are dropping. 

 

[Zakk]

Re: Nuisance algae

what I think you have is diatom algae. You have to clean and remove as mush algae as you can and treat with PhosGuard. It removes silicate that keeps the diatom going. We had a breakout shortly after we set up our frag tanks and it did a good job of riding us of the pain. We sell it in the store but sure you can find in any lfs

I actually am running the hi-capacity GFO from bulk reef supply in a phosban reactor, it dropped my phosphate numbers faster than either phosguard or ROWAphos.  Amazing stuff, and who knows maybe the sudden drop has triggered it coming out of the rock.

I don't think it's diatoms either, I've been through those on new tank setups and it was way different than this pesky stuff. 

 

[phi delt reefer]

Re: Nuisance algae

gfo will remove silicates...  there are test kits available to test for this if you unsure as to whether or not this is causing the bloom.

maybe do a lights out for three days and cut back on frozen food feeding temporarily?

may want to swap out the GFO with some fresh stuff. If your system had a lot to begin with then it may have reached capacity in a short period of time.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Nuisance algae

gfo will remove silicates...  there are test kits available to test for this if you unsure as to whether or not this is causing the bloom.

maybe do a lights out for three days and cut back on frozen food feeding temporarily?

may want to swap out the GFO with some fresh stuff. If your system had a lot to begin with then it may have reached capacity in a short period of time.

The frozen food is -maybe- once a week.  The GFO gets swapped out weekly at this point (as does the rox carbon), The numbers drop to 0.00 and then creep back up a bit (which started the thread on the phosphate free containers).  The only real possibility at this point is either a) leaching from the rocks and substrate or b) one of the fish has a bad phosphate habit and are getting it from some seedy phosphate dealer. 

Heh, I looked for a silicate test kit, they're not super common. 

 

[Blob-79]

Re: Nuisance algae

what type of lighting do you have and how old are the bulbs?

 

[Zakk]

Re: Nuisance algae

what type of lighting do you have and how old are the bulbs?

84X3W LED, just installed this month.  Well I did 36 bulbs mixed with my old MH's so that everything got used to it first, then swapped in the new bulbs.  Most corals had to be moved down in the tank as the new lights blow the doors off the old ones.  Even set at 75%. 

 

[Darryl_V]

Re: Nuisance algae

Hey Zakk, 

Diatoms are dusty...not stringy.  You are most likely dealing with a bloom of cyano and/or a combination of different algae,  brought on by the increased lighting and new sand.  If everything is in order it will probably work itself out in time.....so patience.

In the mean time here are recommendations on some things you can do....

Make sure your RO/DI is putting out 0tds water.  Siphon out the algae if it gets really bad.  Slowly acclimate the tank for more lighting by raising the lighting or cutting back time period.  Blow the rocks off with a turkey baster.    I don't think biopellets is the cure for your problem, I always recommend them.  If your interested in them let me know and I could give you some tips.

I don't think you have a major nutrient problem at this time from your testing results......do you have some more picture of your tank and rock.....full tank shot too?

Oh how are you testing PO4?

 

[Zakk]

Re: Nuisance algae

RO/DI: it's registering 04 at the RO stage and 0tds at the DI stage.

This is definitely stringy and can hold gas bubbles when the lights are on.  When blasted with the baster, they float through the water like spiderwebs and then land on anything sticky (corals!).  I had red cyano about a month ago, and looking back on old photos of the tank, I see I had to to some degree for years.  That went away when I improved the tank parameters (oh I am using the hanna checker for phosphates).  What I have here is just insane.  If I siphon out the strings from the sand bed, they are back, sometimes worse, immediately after I finish!  I mean, some of that can be from what was blasted free from the rocks I supposed, but not all of it. I have cut back lighting to actinic only.  Yesterday the aglae managed to grow in the area the actinics were at, which of course is where I have moved a lot of the corals for the time being).

At this point the following corals are closed and irritated: zoos, torch, ricordias, green cloves, yellow polyp finger, birdsnest and even the brown palythoa, which have grown like weeds through cyano and hair algae outbreaks for years now.  I have taken to feeding small amounts of reef roids at night directly to whatever will take it.
Test kits are either hanna or salifert, except for nitrite and ammonia, which are API (they kind of suck).  GFO is BRS hi-cap, temp is ~80.

I was doing 19 gallons of waterchanges every evening.  I have read that if these are dinos, they can thrive off the trace elements, so I have cut back to just replacing what I siphon out while I am doing this reduced lighting mode.  I read a lot of people throwin in the towel on this stuff, I hope I weather through it.

Oh, the stuff stinks when I siphon it out and leave it for say a half hour.  So far no snail deaths and the mexican turbos have been very active (I can tell by how many corals they dislodge). Oh I should mention I have a turf scrubber and chaeto in the fuge, growing like crazy. I have seen -some- stringy stuff in there too, but not like the main tank. I don't have a pic of the tank with the infestation, but this is the tank from about a week before it started

 

[Neopimp]

Re: Nuisance algae

Cal stir has had this in his tank and he manged to win, so it is possible.... Give him a PM and see what he has to say.  All I remember is that it was not an easy thing to kick.

 

[Darryl_V]

Re: Nuisance algae

Ok some confusion as someone mentioned diatoms.....but this is dinoflagellates.'

Seems like you are taking the appropriate steps......I think your tank will equalize in time.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Nuisance algae

Cal stir has had this in his tank and he manged to win, so it is possible.... Give him a PM and see what he has to say.  All I remember is that it was not an easy thing to kick.

Actually, he had a big flameout over hanna checkers and killed his account, I highly doubt he would be willing to help me.  Ah the irony. 

 

[phi delt reefer]

Re: Nuisance algae

did he actually kill out his account?!?!?!?