Green Monti caps looking pail.

[DerekL]

Has anyone else checked there water coming out of there gfo reactors? Is it true that the water coming out has a reading of 0 ppm phosphates? I checked mine and it's lower then the water in the tank but it's not 0 ppm

 

[Duke]

i would try to slow the flow down a bit and see if you get zero.. if you do then i would add more GFO and turn the flow back up and retest.

 

[DerekL]

The reactors I had before this one had 1/4 tubing and flow was quit restricted and even with a 1 1/2 cups hcgfo saw no change. I had a mj1200 on this BRS dual media reactor and no luck either. I finally saw results with the 1 1/2 cups hcgfo and 1 1/2 cups normal gfo in 2nd chamber. I took out the gfo out of the 2nd reactor. I am seeing a drop in phosphates coming out of the reactor but not 0 ppm. I tried restricting flow and no change. What do I do? Duke when dialling in your reactor did you get 0ppm out if the reactor? I just don't get why I didn't see any change until I have I guess too much gfo in the reactors. Will patience eventually see phosphates drop?

 

[Duke]

The reactors I had before this one had 1/4 tubing and flow was quit restricted and even with a 1 1/2 cups hcgfo saw no change. I had a mj1200 on this BRS dual media reactor and no luck either. I finally saw results with the 1 1/2 cups hcgfo and 1 1/2 cups normal gfo in 2nd chamber. I took out the gfo out of the 2nd reactor. I am seeing a drop in phosphates coming out of the reactor but not 0 ppm. I tried restricting flow and no change. What do I do? Duke when dialling in your reactor did you get 0ppm out if the reactor? I just don't get why I didn't see any change until I have I guess too much gfo in the reactors. Will patience eventually see phosphates drop?

i never did actually test that.. i just gave it 12hrs and retested, im sure theres no exact right way to use GFO, thats just what worked for me.. i know petercar saw similar results just from a slight increase in flow through his reactor also. another easy thing to test would be to change nothing.. get your results and then do not feed your tank or fish anything for 24-48 hrs then retest and if your PO4 is much lower maybe you are feeding too much food and all you have to do is cut back just a little bit.

 

[DerekL]

I took out gfo from 2nd reactor. Will test my water today and again in 24 hrs and again in 48 hrs. As for feeding I feed coral marine snow once a week and acro power once a week and fish get fed every 2nd day as there isn't much for the tangs to eat I feed pellets but make sure every pellet gets consumed twice a week I feed frozen mysis again have narrowed the amount down to what they will consume. I feed this way to ensure I keep extra added phosphates to a minimum. I guess this is going to be a fine line I walk and once I find the sweet spot everything will all be good. I have played around with flow through the reactor and find with the mag 7 I am seeing the best results. I will keep everyone updated as to this situation as I am sure I am not the only person to have this battle and some day this thread hopefully helps someone else.

 

[curiousphil]

I'm not sure how to quite word this since my mind is like scrambled eggs this morning, so I apologize in advance if I don't make any sense. 

I've read that reducing PO4 in the low end of the scale (from say 0.1 to 0.01 and under) has a much more severe impact on corals than large reductions on the high end of the scale (from 0.9 to 0.2, for example).

So perhaps bringing your PO4 from 0.06 to 0.03 is just shocking the monti cap a little bit.  I'm sure it will bounce back.  Mine were much more brown when I had high PO4 (approx 4 months ago) but now they are more vibrant than ever.

I think GFO can impact the balance in the system. Sudden variation in  Phosphates can influence Alkalinity, pH and then Calcium. So I think the impact on your Monty is not necessarily from the lack of Phosphates, but more from another variation induced by lowering the phosphates.

I've seen this stated elsewhere and believe it is a common misperception.  I'll explain.  PO4 inhibits calcification, thereby keeping your corals from using up Ca and Alk.  When your PO4 is reduced to natural seawater levels, corals can then begin to grow (build skeleton, calcify, whatever you want to call it) and then use up Ca and Alk.  So  a sudden reduction in PO4 doesn't directly influence Alk and Ca but does so by allowing corals to grow.

With all of that said.  I do agree with what you all are saying about taking GFO out of the second reactor.  1.5 cups in the first one is just fine.  I have never heard of anybody using the dual reactors this way - the main benefit of having the dual reactors is to be able to change out your carbon and GFO on different schedules!!

 

[reeffreak]

I'm not sure how to quite word this since my mind is like scrambled eggs this morning, so I apologize in advance if I don't make any sense. 

I've read that reducing PO4 in the low end of the scale (from say 0.1 to 0.01 and under) has a much more severe impact on corals than large reductions on the high end of the scale (from 0.9 to 0.2, for example).

So perhaps bringing your PO4 from 0.06 to 0.03 is just shocking the monti cap a little bit.  I'm sure it will bounce back.  Mine were much more brown when I had high PO4 (approx 4 months ago) but now they are more vibrant than ever.

[quote author=Boga link=topic=6661.msg65906#msg65906 date=1382903405]
I think GFO can impact the balance in the system. Sudden variation in  Phosphates can influence Alkalinity, pH and then Calcium. So I think the impact on your Monty is not necessarily from the lack of Phosphates, but more from another variation induced by lowering the phosphates.

I've seen this stated elsewhere and believe it is a common misperception.  I'll explain.  PO4 inhibits calcification, thereby keeping your corals from using up Ca and Alk.  When your PO4 is reduced to natural seawater levels, corals can then begin to grow (build skeleton, calcify, whatever you want to call it) and then use up Ca and Alk.  So  a sudden reduction in PO4 doesn't directly influence Alk and Ca but does so by allowing corals to grow.

With all of that said.  I do agree with what you all are saying about taking GFO out of the second reactor.  1.5 cups in the first one is just fine.  I have never heard of anybody using the dual reactors this way - the main benefit of having the dual reactors is to be able to change out your carbon and GFO on different schedules!!
[/quote]

Another benefit of the dual reactor is one pump. I bought that reactor and thought it was garbage , I could never get the right amount of flow threw it.

 

[DerekL]

I hope they bounce back the one in the first picture started out as a 2"square piece roughly and I close to 3" square in just 2 months and the green was so bright with blue polyps. And the green purple rimmed monti had put on at least 1/2" of growth all the way around. At least my acros have not been affected by this bump in the road. I should listen to my coral from here on out.

 

[Poseidon]

strange, definitly keep us updated as it would be nice to see if you can turn it around!

 

[DerekL]

Well I checked my phosphates when I got home from work and still holding at .03ppm so this is a good thing. My tyree mystic monti frag that has also been growing at a fast pace looks off in colour but it's still showin those amazing blue polyps. So the fast drop in phosphates affected my montis but thankfully my montipora digitata's have not been affected. As for any change with the montis they still look the same which I guess is a good thing. Will keep posted. Wish me luck in getting them back

 

[Boga]

I realize now that I was wrong on one of my previous statements.  :? It looks that is not the PO that is affecting the Alkalinity. It is the Ferric Oxide (GFO) that is doing that. I mixed up things.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/2/chemistry


Anyway, I completed some testing for my curiosity. I do not have a good PO tester, so I do not know the phosphate level. Since I have algae growth I believe that there is plenty of phosphates in my tank. I used 1 teaspoon of HCGFO and 120 mL of saltwater from my DT. I know there was a lot of GFO for the water used, like you would put 2 gallons of GFO in 100 gallon water system.

Testing:

Time	Comments	pH	dKH
8:20	Added 120 mL saltwater from DT
8:20	Tested pH (twice) and Alk (twice)	8.1, 8.1	7, 7
8:25	rinsed 1 teaspoon of HCGFO with 100 mL of saltwater water, then drained
8:30	mixed HCGFO and saltwater
	Gently stir every 10-15 minutes
9:37	Tested pH (once) and Alk (twice)	8.1	5, 5
	Gently stir every 10-15 minutes
11:30	Tested pH and Alk	8.1	4

Would be nice if someone else can do the same testing. Surprisingly the pH remained the same. I will check it tomorrow.

 

[Poseidon]

so gfo absorbs dkh as well?? interesting...

 

[curiousphil]

Oh! That is interesting!

 

[DerekL]

We all learn new things everyday. Thank god we aren't dogs lol

 

[Salty Cracker]

GFO does not absorb alkalinity.

That said, there can be extensive precipitation of carbonates on the solid GFO, and elsewhere in the system. Such precipitation can, for example, be a contributing factor in the caking of such materials, and can coat other surfaces in the aquarium. This precipitation can also contribute to a drop in alkalinity and possibly pH as it removes carbonate from the water column. The effect of calcium will be similar, but smaller.

Just FYI.

This is why testing and dosing are necessary...and if you use GFO, you really can't just stop, and if you just started, you have to watch ALL your levels and increase dosing accordingly. 

 

[Boga]

Thank you curiousphil for the input ref PO. Thank you all for any other inputs and comments.  Indeed, it was a good and learning exercise.

pH dropped after one day, alk stayed about the same. Updated results shown below.

Time	Comments	pH	dKH
8:20 PM	Added 120 mL saltwater from DT
8:20 PM	Tested pH (twice) and Alk (twice)	8.1, 8.1	7, 7
8:25 PM	rinsed 1 teaspoon of HCGFO with 100 mL of saltwater water, then drained
8:30 PM	mixed HCGFO and saltwater
	Gently stir every 10-15 minutes
9:37 PM	Tested pH (once) and Alk (twice)	8.1	5, 5
	Gently stir every 10-15 minutes
11:30 PM	Tested pH and Alk	8.1	4
6:35 PM	22 hrs from start. Tested pH and Alk	7.8	4

 

[DerekL]

Seeing as I am on track for an sps dominant tank and have quite a few sps frags and a few colonies I have been testing daily and tracking my parameters and dosing accordingly. I don't plan on ever stopping gfo. I do nsddow believe I had too much in and hopefully my montis will bounce back. I tested phosphates again today and they have dropped again to .02ppm. I fed coral marine snow last night ands the fish got frozen mysis. Everything seems happy but just the monti. It's still quite pale. Anyways just thought I would give an update as I said last night I would check the phosphates at 24 hrs and again at 48hrs. And my tyree mystic monti looks way better today. I honesty thought that I was going to loose that frag that had encrusted almost fully the frag disk it came on.

 

[Poseidon]

just get things as stable as you can and give it time, it should come back around

 

[DerekL]

So I bought a Salifert phosphate test kit to find out I have undetectable phosphates with there test kit. So the Red Sea pro phosphate is not reliable at all.  So does this go for all of there test kits? I think I am just gonna buy all salifert from now on and the Hanna phosphorus checker. Just thought I would keep you posted. So my dumb ass should of listened to my coral. Lesson learned.

 

[Duke]

i use the red sea pro kits for cal/alk/mag, imo its one of the best kits out there and its nice and accurate.