London police asking for a budget raise...

[unibob]

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/10/17/london-police-to-announce-budget-request

Quit wasting money then:
http://m.londoncommunitynews.com/news-story/4167906-project-learn-tactic-under-review-police-chief/

Reminds me when I was in college and they started this project "LEARN"

Friend of mines parents owned a house over on Thurman circle, 3 officers showed up at his party, asked if they could come in to make sure nothing illegal was happening as they said they could smell something when they came to door, so he said sure come on in, they walked in... Didn't take off there shoes so he said " shoes come off or get out of my house so they had to leave.

IMO they need to find something better to do with there time and money. Quit wasting it.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Yuo're sooooo getting pulled over next time you're in London


You see this is why I don't read any news.  I'm more in favour of firing half of the staff at city hall...just right across the board, instead of chopping money from police and fire services.  If you've every been downtown, you should see the mass of people just wandering around in any department.    Then hire an auditor to analyze what the average city worker does all day.  I know several, and I know how much time they have to have coffee, lunch, breakfast, etc etc with me, all during work time, and all driving work vehicles with work insurance and work gas and repairs.  My one buddy got an 'assistant' that basically does everything he used to do, so when something happens, he calls him.  That's his job, routing the call that comes in, to the other guy.  He didn't even want an assistant, but his department had to "spend the budget" or they would have had the budget reduced.  Yes, that's the thinking... if you don't use the money you are given, they (logically) will reduce what you get next year, so you had best spend what you're given.  I don't think the 'free press' has any clue about stuff like that, they just listen to the most vocal (usually people that have reason to dislike the police). 

City Councillors: we had this guy, vanmeerbergen, in our district, and when you talked to him, he actually seemed like he genuinely cared.  THEN they opened up a new district for him (doubled the Councillors in london), and you could just see him sneer when you mentioned the area he was not running in.  That was pretty much the last thread of hope I held for politicians.  It's a job, and it's a paycheck to them, eff anyone that can't vote for them. 



Anyway, that's why I don't read 'news'papers, they're big folded pieces of toilet paper that leave ink on my butt if I try to use them as toilet paper (in other words, even useless as toilet paper). 

Leave the police alone, I need them to keep those young pot smoking punks offa my lawn!!!

 

[unibob]

I think every job has the abuser of the job title. It's has nothing to do with not liking the police. It's the fact that 92 percent of the budget is salary, and they still want more... They're salaries WILL go up but nothing else will be done. I didn't know the city had so much money to blow.

 

[unibob]

Asking students for parents/ students names, address, phone numbers is unnecessary and not called for. Sounds like officers taking advantage of them/ scaring them into giving there info.

Unless they are just looking for someone to keep them company while they sit in parking lots.

I think a YouTube compilation is needed

 

[Darryl_V]

I hate um and they stink.  :dead:  Politicians, Cops, firefighters, Teachers, kittens........all of them can go walk off a bridge.

 

[copperkills]

I sense a bitter Betty!  I dont see you at City hall meetings Jerry

 

[unibob]

I sense a bitter Betty!  I dont see you at City hall meetings Jerry

Haha. Bitter indeed, probably because I'm not the one getting bobs by college/university girls on my lunch break.

Also this is not to say everything you read in the paper is 100% correct.

 

[Darryl_V]

Its gonna be Devils night soon and we will see if the cops earn their keep.  hahah.  Sometimes students deserve the harassment although I do think unprovoked random drop ins and recording names is too much.  Reminds me of New Yorks stop and frisk policy which is pretty horrible.

 

[theyangman]

I enjoy a good frisking....

 

[AdamS]

but his department had to \"spend the budget\" or they would have had the budget reduced.  Yes, that's the thinking... if you don't use the money you are given, they (logically) will reduce what you get next year, so you had best spend what you're given.  I don't think the 'free press' has any idea...

In fact, this mentality takes place at everything that is government funded. I have personally seen it happen at over a dozen public organizations, school boards, transit, federal buildings, provincial buildings, and others. I always thought this was the norm, not the exception.

In defense of those people doing it, they are right, its use it or lose it, if they need the money most years but dont need it one year, they will never get it back when they need it. The system is flawed from the top down, not the bottom up.

 

[reeffreak]

Statistically crime rates have been dropping over the last few years, which in return means so are police budgets.

Ever wonder why your municipal police service started a Facebook page? Or why they have joined social media sites? If they post on fb, twitter and the news paper then the crimes in your face, they make it seem like violent crimes happen everyday in every city, making you afraid and wanting your local police service to do more and more which means there budgets either a) stat the same or b) they get more then the previous year.

Within the next 20 years police services will be shrinking, cities can't afford these crazy budgets for no reason. IMO 10 years from now at 1/4 uniformed officers will be looking for new jobs.

Why do we pay a trained officer, with a badge and a gun to sit behind the desk at the department and answer phones? Or why do we have uniformed officers with badge and a gun doing investigation? It's not needed, civilians can do those jobs listed above without a gun and a badge and the use of force training. Only people who should carry a weapon and be trained the wayofficers are now arw the onea on the beat, if tour not working the beat why do you need a gun. Change will be happening  within these money wasting resources, municipalities can't afford the budgets anymore.

 

[theyangman]

...Change will be happening  within these money wasting resources, municipalities can't afford the budgets anymore....

Nope. No way. Raise taxes, pull it from other infrastructure sources. etc... The budgets will always be made to work one way or another. We are examining this on a micro level at the municipality level. Think of the resources wasted on a federal level. It is the nature of the beast and good luck ever seeing it change. Power corrupts all those entrusted to never abuse it. And even if there was a saint out there who would run for local mayor making promises of slashing budgets, he/she would never get elected. Politics, even on a local level are very dirty and shady, people like that never even get to see the light of day of an election. You want to overhaul a municipality? You are going to have to overhaul the entire Canadian Government. Even if a movement got started in say London, the big wigs in Ottawa would have it squashed in no time flat. They are not going to let some small city ruin their cash cows that they have. And good luck fighting Queen's Park. You would be buried in no time flat.

It's pointless to complain about it.

Yes yes lets all be naive and altruistic about this and say "YES! We CAN make a difference" yet no one is going to get the entire country to revolt and start a revolution, because at the end of the day, we all know deep down, slightly higher taxes is a small price to pay compared to other countries in the world that are in shambles. It is just as sad to roll over and take it dry, but on the other hand, what is there that we can realistically do? Write a letter of anger to your local MP? Bahahahahhahahahaha

 

[Darryl_V]

Oh god.  Why do I love a good debate so much. 

Statistically crime rates have been dropping over the last few years, which in return means so are police budgets.

Ever wonder why your municipal police service started a Facebook page? Or why they have joined social media sites? If they post on fb, twitter and the news paper then the crimes in your face, they make it seem like violent crimes happen everyday in every city, making you afraid and wanting your local police service to do more and more which means there budgets either a) stat the same or b) they get more then the previous year.

I agree here, increased media and press on crime makes it seem like crime is on the rise.    The first persons other than the media to push this message is our government in power the PC's and Harper.  They have made claims the statistics are wrong and violent crime is going up and more crimes go "unreported".  They implemented the huge OMIBUS crime bill designed to get tougher on crime and increase minimum sentences and reduce the emphasis on rehabilitation.  Basically taking a US approach that has FAILED them.

That said there are more to budgets than a few points on the surface.  Inflation alone can be enough cause for an increase even if all else is static.

Within the next 20 years police services will be shrinking, cities can't afford these crazy budgets for no reason. IMO 10 years from now at 1/4 uniformed officers will be looking for new jobs.

Why do we pay a trained officer, with a badge and a gun to sit behind the desk at the department and answer phones? Or why do we have uniformed officers with badge and a gun doing investigation? It's not needed, civilians can do those jobs listed above without a gun and a badge and the use of force training. Only people who should carry a weapon and be trained the wayofficers are now arw the onea on the beat, if tour not working the beat why do you need a gun. Change will be happening  within these money wasting resources, municipalities can't afford the budgets anymore.

Your logic is we can't afford these crazy budgets anymore so we have to reduce employees, wages and services.  The same logic could be put across the board to any department of the city or any department of government.  There are many reasons to reduce costs including inefficiency, and over service but IMO saying we can't afford it anymore is a race to the bottom.  Austerity doesnt produce growth and this attitude is basically re-setting the bar and saying we can all expect less from now on.  This topic can go in all sorts of different directions though.  I just dont like the idea that we have to expect less from now on.  Maybe that's the truth but what we should be doing is fixing the economy.

 

[reeffreak]

[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=6628.msg65217#msg65217 date=1382459138]
...Change will be happening  within these money wasting resources, municipalities can't afford the budgets anymore....

Nope. No way. Raise taxes, pull it from other infrastructure sources. etc... The budgets will always be made to work one way or another. We are examining this on a micro level at the municipality level. Think of the resources wasted on a federal level. It is the nature of the beast and good luck ever seeing it change. Power corrupts all those entrusted to never abuse it. And even if there was a saint out there who would run for local mayor making promises of slashing budgets, he/she would never get elected. Politics, even on a local level are very dirty and shady, people like that never even get to see the light of day of an election. You want to overhaul a municipality? You are going to have to overhaul the entire Canadian Government. Even if a movement got started in say London, the big wigs in Ottawa would have it squashed in no time flat. They are not going to let some small city ruin their cash cows that they have. And good luck fighting Queen's Park. You would be buried in no time flat.

It's pointless to complain about it.

Yes yes lets all be naive and altruistic about this and say "YES! We CAN make a difference" yet no one is going to get the entire country to revolt and start a revolution, because at the end of the day, we all know deep down, slightly higher taxes is a small price to pay compared to other countries in the world that are in shambles. It is just as sad to roll over and take it dry, but on the other hand, what is there that we can realistically do? Write a letter of anger to your local MP? Bahahahahhahahahaha
[/quote]

At some point they will have no choice but to lower budgets, if they can't show reasons they need it, then they don't get it. they won't pull money out. Nobody has to do anything, crime statistics prove that this is what is happening, policing with slowly phased out, weather you believe it or not its going to happen.

 

[unibob]

I like how the London police are investigating the situation.

It's like telling a dog to go clean up his mess, but we both know the dogs just going to dig a hole and bury it to never be seen or spoke about again.

 

[theyangman]

[quote author=theyangman link=topic=6628.msg65219#msg65219 date=1382459622]
[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=6628.msg65217#msg65217 date=1382459138]
...Change will be happening  within these money wasting resources, municipalities can't afford the budgets anymore....

Nope. No way. Raise taxes, pull it from other infrastructure sources. etc... The budgets will always be made to work one way or another. We are examining this on a micro level at the municipality level. Think of the resources wasted on a federal level. It is the nature of the beast and good luck ever seeing it change. Power corrupts all those entrusted to never abuse it. And even if there was a saint out there who would run for local mayor making promises of slashing budgets, he/she would never get elected. Politics, even on a local level are very dirty and shady, people like that never even get to see the light of day of an election. You want to overhaul a municipality? You are going to have to overhaul the entire Canadian Government. Even if a movement got started in say London, the big wigs in Ottawa would have it squashed in no time flat. They are not going to let some small city ruin their cash cows that they have. And good luck fighting Queen's Park. You would be buried in no time flat.

It's pointless to complain about it.

Yes yes lets all be naive and altruistic about this and say "YES! We CAN make a difference" yet no one is going to get the entire country to revolt and start a revolution, because at the end of the day, we all know deep down, slightly higher taxes is a small price to pay compared to other countries in the world that are in shambles. It is just as sad to roll over and take it dry, but on the other hand, what is there that we can realistically do? Write a letter of anger to your local MP? Bahahahahhahahahaha
[/quote]

At some point they will have no choice but to lower budgets, if they can't show reasons they need it, then they don't get it. they won't pull money out. Nobody has to do anything, crime statistics prove that this is what is happening, policing with slowly phased out, weather you believe it or not its going to happen.
[/quote]

There is an equilibrium that needs to be found. Is it on the excessive side right now? Perhaps, however there lies a happy medium of what is necessary to maintain a peaceful existence and not overspending. It will never fall the other way sadly as those in power of keeping their budgets high will press for more in hopes of perhaps just breaking even year after year and continuing their ways till they retire, and the next big wig steps into his shoes. In fear of crime making a rebound in the city I cannot see them slashing the budget drastically without proof of gross overspending. If anything it will just simply stay the same.

 

[reeffreak]

Private security sector is on a massive incline, this is the service that will fade out most policing. Don't believe me do some research on the topic, I've be learning it for 2 years with another 2 ahead of me. Not saying I know it all, jut saying this is exactly what I've been taught in a criminal justice program. From ex OPP officers. There is change coming. Like any thing change that happens fast can ruin the society, but it will slowly be phased out. 

 

[theyangman]

Private security sector is on a massive incline, this is the service that will fade out most policing. Don't believe me do some research on the topic, I've be learning it for 2 years with another 2 ahead of me. Not saying I know it all, jut saying this is exactly what I've been taught in a criminal justice program. From ex OPP officers. There is change coming. Like any thing change that happens fast can ruin the society, but it will slowly be phased out. 

Seriously? Private security replacing police? In a post apocalyptic world where the government has been destroyed maybe and anarchy reigns supreme.

Take what you learn from the people who you are handing money over too you with a grain of salt dude. They are gonna let you hear what you wanna hear. "Yes, police school is a waste of money, come to our school because we are the future!" It sounds WAAAAAY too self serving to take seriously man.

If what you say is true, there would be no police in the US anymore, or at least "phased out" like you have said and there is not even a whiff of that happening anywhere. Private sector security would only be there for those able to afford it first off.

Not a chance dude, and I can say for pretty darn certainty, sure as hell not in our lifetime. The basis of the government is to provide this service for us as a by product of us paying taxes....

From the Canadian Charter:

"7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."

It is a Canadian RIGHT for life, liberty and SECURITY. This is why we pay taxes to fund these programs. To say it would be phased out would be to change a direct focus of our Charter that we as Canadians live by and live for. To say this would be swapped out (even over any extended period of time) for personal, private security I am not gonna lie, sounds like complete and utter garbage.

 

[theyangman]

Large increase in private security personnel between 2001 and 2006

For many years, employment in the private security industry has exceeded that of public police officers (Chart 1). In 2006, this was the case for all provinces except Saskatchewan3. There were about 102,000 private security personnel in Canada, compared to 68,000 police officers, representing about 3 private security personnel for every 2 police officers (Table 1). Security guards made up 90% of private security personnel.

While the rate of both police officers and private security personnel per 100,000 population increased between 2001 and 2006, private security grew much faster, up 15% compared to 3% for police officers. The increase in private security personnel was due to the growth in the number of security guards.

Ie: Rent a cops. For patrolling a building at night against punk kids....

Source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2008010/article/10730-eng.htm

 

[reeffreak]

Gated communities in the states are an example of private security growing. Like I said don't believe me man. There's not enough money around for police to patrol the streets all day long, which is why gated communities are growing more and more of them around.

Also, not just any person can go to "cop school" by the way. You have to be hired by a department before you can train in Almyer