Weak Hammer

[TORX]

Q: My hammer looks pretty weak and shriveled the last few days and getting worse, I wonder why.

Test levels. Hey, look at this, when did I buy this calcium test? Maybe I should try that for the hell of it.

A: Calcium levels around 280, maybe that is a little low? (sarcasm) Now, where did I put that Liquid Calcium?

Nitrates, Phosphate, pH and such all in check or undetectable, temp little high at 80.7, will be dropping that by a degree. No test for magnesium, should I and what is recommended for a tester?

Any other suggestions?
Can I add Liquid Calcium too quickly? (running 55gal total volume)

 

[pulpfiction1]

just my opinion but......... 280 is more than a tad low,i would also be concerned about my alkalinity and mag levels, i wouldn't dose more than a normal recommended dose according to the product you have,alk and mag levels can effect the binding of calcium greatly throwing your tank into a swing of sorts.as I've read your posts in the past "take it slow" when adjusting these components

 

[Zakk]

magnesium, alk and calcium all sort of work off each other somehow.  If Ca is low, then your magnesium is likely low too.  Levels are important.


Sometimes it's simply something that got into the system, cleansers or whatnot.  I had a big loss a few years back when I found out the hard way that the housekeeper used one of the buckets I use for the tank to mix up floor cleaner.  Lost corals and fish before I figured out what happened.  So don't overlook something foreign getting into the tank.  Lastly, if you've had recent additions, certain hitchhikers will much on things like hammer.  Just thinking out loud at this point though.

I would bring your calcium levels up over a couple of days, nothing good ever happens when you change things too fast.  Do you know the PH? 

*edit...pulp beat me to it  ;D

 

[pulpfiction1]

i was just here earlier,tis all zakk.here is a simple article on the calcium subject torx

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

 

[TORX]

You guys are awsome, I have a GH KH tester from API, but it says it is a fresh water tester. Can it be used? I did try it, and it was EXTREMELY low. 4 drops triggered the reaction when it should have been about 17 or so.

 

[pulpfiction1]

i wouldnt consider the api for saltwater reliable  lol

 

[Zakk]

The only tests I'll trust to API is nitrItes and ammonia, since those are almost never off.  Everything else I only use salifert (or more recently hanna). 
A test for freshwater is not going to work at all for freshwater, just too different.

 

[xxmurrxx]

I just got the red sea pro foundation kit (KH,CA,MG), comparing results to my salifert tests and it's pretty close.  Kit has some nice features too.

But yeah I would bump it up from the API for those tests.

 

[Zakk]

I've never used the red sea kits, I just know a whole lot of people question the quality of the API (they're cheap for a reason). 

 

[TORX]

Looks like I am going to save up for some new testers. Time to google it, but most likely salifert then Hanna as the reviews for hanna are getting better every day.

Now my Calcium does say 1-5ml per day per 50 gallons. So... 5ml per day till it is up to acceptable levels? Then cut the dosing and only add what is being used by the tank while monitoring daily to find out what the dosing should be.

 

[pulpfiction1]

myself i wouldnt add it till i had alk and mag  numbers

 

[Zakk]

myself i wouldnt add it till i had alk and mag  numbers

I agree.  These all need to come up at the same time, slowly. 

Again, the BRS 2-part mix is my choice, since it's really a 3-part because you also get magnesium.

 

[TORX]

Just need to test it all first. Only issue is that I will most likely need to order testers as the LFS here suck and the hours I work do not accommodate me traveling. Will have to order some online. FML.

 

[pulpfiction1]

there is a formula but i dont know where it is at the moment as far as mag goes,1/3 of mag reading is the lowest your calcium falls,like my mag is about 1250 so the lowest my cal will fall to is 1/3 of that number
so my cal should be about 420,dont hold me to this as i havent read the article in couple of years,my alk at 3 keeps it all tied together.so with your reading in the 200's i assume your mag is well below the 1200 min i would like to see

when i find the article i will post it mark

 

[TORX]

so the next question while we are all talking about it and to save me the time when I get the new testers. What is...
A) the best way to keep this level
B) natural way to keep these levels till I get to running reactors.

 

[pulpfiction1]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

not the artice i was looking for but will help with the asked question

 

[xxmurrxx]

kalk dosed from your ato water seems pretty popular.
You'll have to read up on it of corse if you want to go that route.

 

[teebone110]

Hey Torx,

Your hammer is telling you that something is wrong. You will need to get an accurate test of your Ca, Alk, and Mg, then figure out how much is needed to get to target levels. I would suggest using the BRS calculator (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/reef-calculator) based on your water volume.

BRS does sell the salts you can use. Some people save some cash, and go with Epsom Salt for Magnesium, and Baking Soda for Alk. If you can find some bulk calcium chloride, you can use this too for Calcium. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php. You can find all but the calcium at the bulk barn for cheap.

I think your first step would be to get some test kits, because you are going to have to monitor these levels as you slowly bring them up. It is recommended to drip them, and do it over a number of days based on how much you need.

An option would be to use kalk as an alternative to maintain daily levels through your top-off, or drip a teaspoon with a gallon of water at night. Kalk is easy and very inexpensive. If mixed into your ATO, will be dependent on your evaporation rate, which may not maintain exact levels. I have seen some awesome tanks, with kalk only for daily supplementation.

If you end up getting lots of SPS, your cal and alk demand will increase, so this is when you might consider dosers. 2-Part in dosers is probably the easiest and least expensive compared to purchasing and operating a calcium reactor.

I know some of the good reef focused LFS in London can help you with tests and they can mix up some 2 part to get you started.

There is no point wasting your calcium supplement if you don't know what your alk and mg levels are. The level won't stay stable and will lead to further issues.

Bottom line.. do it right, get some test kits, buy some supplements, then go slow when you are restoring your levels.

 

[Darryl_V]

Seems like you got some good advice.  Alk is the most important major element to testand keep stable.  It will also flux faster than calcium because calcium carbonate is made up of 50 parts alk to 20 parts calcium.  Also there is less alkalinity in saltwater to begin with.  plus alk effects the pH.

Now having said all that I have an educated guess that if you calcium is at 280 your alk has to really really low as well..

You need to start testing alk,calcium and mg....and supplement.  Dont go to fast brining the levels back up though.

 

[Zakk]

For me, I've been manually dosing the 3-part for quite some time now, and just testing.  For my system, 2 'pumps' of alk and calcium keep my levels up there, last reading was ALK: 9.52 dKH, Ca: 440 and magnesium was 1300.  I just ordered dosers from BRA and will set them up with my apex unit and again keep testing until I have them running on auto. 

When I first started 'fixing' my tank I brought ph and alk up too quick, and my brittle star split completely down the disc, side to side, so bad the fish were picking away at it's guts.  It's still alive somehow, but I learned that anything too quick is bad bad news. 

So get your levels now, get where they want to be, get everything set, then slowly bring them up.

Doing some water changes won't hurt either, the parameters of the new water should be better than what you have in there already, but again, slow and steady.