Reef Raft Aussie LPS

[spyd]

I have bought a bunch of frags from Burc in the past. Out of all the frags he sold me, I only have a few that survived. Only 1 that has really thrived. Yes, they are inexpensive, however, he brings in cultured or wild corals and chops them up right away. My success rate with his frags is extremely low.

Now, when I buy frags from Darryl, I not only get what I am asking for, I get large frags and healthy ones at that. His frags all come from successfully grown corals in his tank. I can tell you my success rate with his frags are close to 100%. Not joking!! To me its a no brainer. I may pay a little more but the frag is triple the size at least and all most guaranteed to grow. Plus, you know what you are getting with Darryl. You're not getting a "sunrise milli" that is really just a partly bleached out green milli....  ;D

 

[Darryl_V]

I understand that but it's the hobby, things are expensive today cheap tomarrow that's how every peice of livestock in this hobby goes . Black Clownfish used to be insane prices now there dirt cheap, acans used to be $$$$ now there not so popular and less expensive and so on and so forth. Zoas go for next to nothing now a days . I mean if everyone could grow out sps like you Darryl I doubt we would see the prices we see now on certain types is sps

tell that to my 2yr old ora red planet....that thing just wont grow up.

Its true though (at least locally) the more people successful with certain corals the cheaper the sell price.  I almost always sell a frag for less than i paid after growing it out and others i assume do the same.  Also the bigger the colony and faster growth the more generous i get.  I think getting more successful reefers and lower prices is good though.  Keep in mind some sps and a lot of lps are such slow growers that this model wont work.

 

[spyd]

Ie. Pink Lemonade. I've had it for over a year now and it may have doubled in size.  ;D Compared to my Palmers Blue Milli that I have had for all most the same amount of time and it is a good 6" plus in diameter!

 

[Darryl_V]

AHA!  So it's Darryl keeping the prices high!  I knew it!  ;D

ha i wish i had that kinda power. 

You know this might come as a shock to some but i wish i never had to sell another frag.  I have not come close to recouping the money i have spent on this hobby over the years.  I do it cause im an addict.  If this was a real business for me im a horrible business man.....especially considering the hours i put in.  Maybe one day it will come close or i will have a crash...who knows.

 

[unibob]

Like Darryl said I think it all depends what it is and the amount you have, just because you sell something below what others are selling for doesn't mean the price automatically changes, as usually the hobbiest selling doesn't have an unlimited amount of the coral.

 

[spyd]

All this talk is making me want that Torch. Lol

 

[Darryl_V]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Derek.  This is a tricky subject.  In the end if you are a collector and want something the best you can do is find the best peice at the cheapest available price to you.  Some of you may think i over paid if i say i spent $100 on a tiny sps frag but if i want it and there are no other cheaper sources than i pay or not.

 

[rowdy29can]

I agree with Darryl kryptonite is far better and worth the wait and price???? When it's available? :/ then again we all could be waiting awhile for suppliers to get them again?

 

[reeffreak]

just to clear things up i wasnt implying darryl or anyone inpaticular for that matter keeps prices high, just saying supply and demand basic stuff if theres 1 frag in the world then sure it will have a price but when 50-100 people have a frag then its really not a rare peice anymore.

 

[Duke]

One thing im noticing, nothing in this hobby stays rare for long, Except some species of fish that must just be damn hard to catch and or find, most coral just grows too fast and we just pass it around so much that its impossible unless your importing straight from a reef and hoarding it for yourself.. like Darryl said its worth what people are willing to pay, some people are willing to pay more than others.

 

[Darryl_V]

just to clear things up i wasnt implying darryl or anyone inpaticular for that matter keeps prices high, just saying supply and demand basic stuff if theres 1 frag in the world then sure it will have a price but when 50-100 people have a frag then its really not a rare peice anymore.

I dont think anyone thought you were signaling someone out individually.

Supply and demand sure......but if you want to see what true supply and demand does look at the states.  Of course the demand is partially hype driven but it doesn't matter what causes the demand, it's still demand.

Im specifically referring to the abundance of online selling in the states and the lack of it here in Canada.

most coral just grows too fast and we just pass it around so much that its impossible

I can't agree with this....I would say that the vast majority of corals imported don't make it a year in captivity.  Of the ones that do survive....a large percentage will not grow fast enough to ever make a dent.    Unless the coral is in fact rare what happens then is just more importation.

If coral growing was really that easy we wouldnt be imported the amount of coral we do.......

On a side note SPS in general is easiest to propagate.  My SPS are probably 90% or more grown from frags. 

 

[reeffreak]

[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=3603.msg30862#msg30862 date=1353545347]
just to clear things up i wasnt implying darryl or anyone inpaticular for that matter keeps prices high, just saying supply and demand basic stuff if theres 1 frag in the world then sure it will have a price but when 50-100 people have a frag then its really not a rare peice anymore.

I dont think anyone thought you were signaling someone out individually.

Supply and demand sure......but if you want to see what true supply and demand does look at the states.  Of course the demand is partially hype driven but it doesn't matter what causes the demand, it's still demand.

Im specifically referring to the abundance of online selling in the states and the lack of it here in Canada.

[/quote]

I thin alot of people won't buy livestock online it's a big risk especially if your paying 285$ for a frag, also they would never get those prices in Canada like they do there even reef raft Canada knows that, the reason why there's a reef raft USA

 

[Darryl_V]

I thin alot of people won't buy livestock online it's a big risk

People in the states seem to do it regularly .....dont see how they are that different from us other than size of population.  If we are a tenth the size surely we could support a tenth the amount of online business.  Isnt our economy suppose to be doing better than theirs??

big risk especially if your paying 285$ for a frag

The risk will be dependent on the quality of the seller.  DOA refund or replacement is pretty much a given on line everywhere though.  But Burc likes to send people frags that they didnt order.

also they would never get those prices in Canada like they do there even reef raft Canada knows that, the reason why there's a reef raft USA

I can agree with you there.  The USA is a larger market with online shops creating a small section of collectors willing to shell out big bucks for hyped corals.  But most things are pretty even.....importation costs are probably pretty similar.

 

[Duke]

most coral just grows too fast and we just pass it around so much that its impossible

I can't agree with this....I would say that the vast majority of corals imported don't make it a year in captivity.  Of the ones that do survive....a large percentage will not grow fast enough to ever make a dent.    Unless the coral is in fact rare what happens then is just more importation.

If coral growing was really that easy we wouldnt be imported the amount of coral we do.......

On a side note SPS in general is easiest to propagate.  My SPS are probably 90% or more grown from frags.

I agree with what your saying fully, I was more or less referring to our small market I consider us all to be in, I guess what I was trying to say that some of these LE corals people are asking such high $$ aren't so LE after they get passed around as much as they do, and since some of them I would consider way out of my price range, im really thankful for guys like yourself and all the other hobbyists who do offer these great pieces for really good deals.

 

[Duke]

Anyone who wants to see some really nice eye candy.. check this guy out.. he's out of florida and he sells wysiwyg through facebook, some of the craziest coral I've seen anywhere, and he goes through coral like no one I've seen. Not All USA based coral shops are selling coral for insane prices. I see an gold aussie torch for 50$ actually just posted yesterday.. makes me think all this aussie coral is coming in from 1 supplier and all the shops are just a little piece of one giant mother load all shipped out at once. .. it kind of puts the type of destruction we are doing to the coral reefs into perspective... hopefully one day we can support this hobby in a sustainable fashion.


http://www.facebook.com/RareReef/

www.rarereef.com

 

[reeffreak]

Ya I agree with what has been said above from you both... I think we need more shops willing to ship and be there with good customer service when there is issues like DOA, but if you try to google anything for coral in Canada is all negative .

 

[Darryl_V]

Looks like $55 for a single head of aussie gold torch.....a good price but exactly what I was saying.

Wins some loose some though.....here is what they are calling a rainbow hammer for $170.  It looks strickening similar to the yellow/orange hammer BA london brought in not that long ago and was 3 times as big selling for $120.  In all fairness that is an aussie piece and BA's wasn't but quality is the same.

But ya there prices generally aren't that out of wack with ours unless you look at some of the rare/collector stuff.

 

[jroovers]

This is an interesting discussion.  Coral branding and marketing is pretty fascinating stuff.  I'll add to the theoretical discussion and hopefully it isn't too far off topic from the original post. I smell a thesis topic for my master's I'm working on. 

I'm sure the day is coming when corals will be patented - I'm a bit surprised it hasn't happened already.  It is widespread in the gardening and nursery industry - almost any plant you purchase from a local nursery, and definitely from a Rona or a Lowes, is a plant variety that has been patented.  This allows the wholesaler to own the name of the plant, and the exclusive right to grow it (for commerical purposes).  As you can imagine, there are almost an infinite number of plant varieties and hybrids, so I have no clue how they figure out that one tea rose for example is different enough from another tea rose to identify it as a new "variety".  I'm sure the original grower or hybridizer wants the variety to be identified as a beauty, that way their name is attached to it (a big thrill for a hobbyist and you can see this happening with corals to trace lineage and origin), and a potential financial boom for a wholesaler (can you imagine if everyone in North America wanted a Jroovers Superman Tea Rose??)

Theoretically, anyone of us could apply for and patent a coral and use the name we want.  Assuming they will grant them for corals, which I can't imagine they wouldn't given they aren't that different from plants, I could apply for the patent on "Red Planet", and if granted, could ask ORA to cease and desist using the name (assuming they haven't done so already).  Obviously, a lot has to do with reputation - no one is going to want to buy a jroovers red planet over a ORA red planet even if I do have the patent.  I'm guessing to this point there hasn't been enough financial incentive to patent corals, but if I were a major supplier in the states, I would be looking at patenting any popular pieces that I aquaculture and sell for wholesale/retail.  Would involve a lot of resources though (financially and time wise), but the way people are throwing out $'s at 1" frags nowadays, that day is coming.  Right now I can sell you a frag of my red planet, and tell you that is ORA, and you'd have to take my word for it.  I got my frag from Dwayne, and I can't recall where he got his from (if it is the original ORA or a simlar variety or a RR Red Planet).  The point is, most people are going to pay more for a tried and true ORA red planet than the "similar to" version, even if both are acquacultured, and even if the non-ORA piece is nicer in many people's opinion. You'll probably get a certificate of authenticity with your patented frag to demonstrate its lineage. This is one of the foundations of successful branding, it has a place in your mind that you associate with some type of value added.  In the end, any piece is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it, but too many in my opinion are falling prey to the "hype".  I've been guilty of it just as much as anyone.

 

[spyd]

Very interesting Jordan!!! You are definitely right! I never thought about the whole patent idea with corals but it would definitely be a wise marketing tool.

 

[reeffreak]

Personally I think because coral reefs are protected environments that trying to patent a coral would not be easy or worth it , whereas plants that grow in a local garden are a bit different, just my opinion, the idea of it all is great if your selling coral . Good write up