Incredible Aquarium ...A new low

[Duke]

[quote author=parksy link=topic=4385.msg40937#msg40937 date=1360952476]
I agree that there are standards to be kept and when someone goes out of their way to bring in very high end coral it should not be held to the same standard as the lower end stuff. Bigshow is creating a name for himself based on this standard and I can see why he would be upset.

Its like when you go to the grocery store to buy ketchup the \"no name\" brand is in the same bottle and the same colour but we all know Heinz 57 is the best. LOL

;D

difference here is if you put Heinz 57 on your similar ketchup bottle expect to be served with a 7-8 figure lawsuit and hope to settle for 7 figures. None of the Tyree corals or RR corals are trademarked quite simply. We are ALL free to re-use the names as much as we want. another big thing here.... these corals were not "developed" or even "discovered" by the people naming them. They are purchased through exporters in their originating countries. Some 10 cent a day diver actually discovered them and if anything he should get naming rights.
[/quote]




theres no difference.. expect some slack online especially in a case like this.. The pieces at IA are not the same pieces as he's passing them off as.. i would be upset too.. You missed it but when IA came on here and Posted the shots of the IAS Collector peices sporting 500$ 1" frag price tags.. which in all actuality were really Reef Raft Collector Pieces.. it wasn't right, plain and simple.. he could have just stuck with what they are and said he was now selling these RR pieces or just drop the RR all together and went with it.. its the renaming something that is someone elses to be their own that really got to me.. either way i could care less, im just saying its not right and it would be stupid to buy a IAS Pink Floyd 1" frag for 250$ when you can get the real deal RR Pink Floyd for much less elsewhere.. Same goes for all the LE stuff at IA.. just to throw it out there

 

[unibob]

I'm going to be posting some Mad Jelly Anemones soon.



pew pew pew.

 

[teebone110]

Now where's that MILF? :drool:

 

[Salty Cracker]

[quote author=parksy link=topic=4385.msg40937#msg40937 date=1360952476]
I agree that there are standards to be kept and when someone goes out of their way to bring in very high end coral it should not be held to the same standard as the lower end stuff. Bigshow is creating a name for himself based on this standard and I can see why he would be upset.

Its like when you go to the grocery store to buy ketchup the \"no name\" brand is in the same bottle and the same colour but we all know Heinz 57 is the best. LOL

;D

difference here is if you put Heinz 57 on your similar ketchup bottle expect to be served with a 7-8 figure lawsuit and hope to settle for 7 figures. None of the Tyree corals or RR corals are trademarked quite simply. We are ALL free to re-use the names as much as we want. another big thing here.... these corals were not "developed" or even "discovered" by the people naming them. They are purchased through exporters in their originating countries. Some 10 cent a day diver actually discovered them and if anything he should get naming rights.
[/quote]

Heh, the dude diving just doesn't want to get eaten by a shark.

I think it's more a matter of courtesy than propriety.  But hey, everyone can do what they like and the chips fall where they will.  I wonder if other hobbies have this much  cantankerous  drama.  Like do they have big model train fights? ;D 

 

[Salty Cracker]

Now where's that MILF? :drool:

Oh man I feel a UR MOMZ fight a'coming

 

[Darryl_V]

I tend to disagree about the naming, I would prefer changing the names. I have a few corals from darryl but he would probably rather i dont sell corals that i turned from an ugly rainbow of colours to a real nice soft tan/brown colour as MRT corals.

Thats not true.  If you have a coral that orginated from me please carry on the name if you want, I prefer it.  For multi-generational frags its important to me to know that Im getting the coral I want that I have seen else where.  For instance when I personally purchase any KNOWN collector coral I always first know how to adentify that coral (you wouldnt believe people who cant positively identify a coral they want) and I also ask what the source is.  So when I buy an ORA hawkins echinata for instance, first I know what it should look like and secondly if its being advertised as such I ask where the seller got it and how confident he is that it is the same linage.  It's nice to know that the coral Im getting is the exact coral that I have seen and read about and since others have been success with it that gives me a better chance. 

It can get tricky for sure though and that is why I say it is for fun.....because you can't take it too serious, there is no coral naming governing body.

 

[Salty Cracker]

[quote author=AdamS link=topic=4385.msg40926#msg40926 date=1360951008]
I tend to disagree about the naming, I would prefer changing the names. I have a few corals from darryl but he would probably rather i dont sell corals that i turned from an ugly rainbow of colours to a real nice soft tan/brown colour as MRT corals.

Thats not true.  If you have a coral that orginated from me please carry on the name if you want, I prefer it.  For multi-generational frags its important to me to know that Im getting the coral I want that I have seen else where.  For instance when I personally purchase any KNOWN collector coral I always first know how to adentify that coral (you wouldnt believe people who cant positively identify a coral they want) and I also ask what the source is.  So when I buy an ORA hawkins echinata for instance, first I know what it should look like and secondly if its being advertised as such I ask where the seller got it and how confident he is that it is the same linage.  It's nice to know that the coral Im getting is the exact coral that I have seen and read about and since others have been success with it that gives me a better chance. 

It can get tricky for sure though and that is why I say it is for fun.....because you can't take it too serious, there is no coral naming governing body.
[/quote]

I have an easier way...I just get them from you and take your word on it.

It seems to take a while to get 'into' the proper names for these things.  For example I had no idea I wanted a pearlberry until I saw one on your site.  I've now seen 10 variations online, and none of them look similar.  Plus, no question corals can change 100% from tank to tank.  I got a RR alien eye tort a while back, and I have a photo of what I got...blue green with yellow 'eyes' and very dense, close packed polyps.  What grew, was a light blue, sparse polyp stag or tort, that only now a year later is getting its 'eyes' back, but bears no resemblance to the original piece.  It's tough. 

I do keep a microsoft access database of everything I buy though...when purchased, from who, the name given and a picture of the original colony (if possible) and the actual frag. 

 

[Darryl_V]

Wild corals can change a lot but captive grown corals change very little from tank to tank.  There is only one ORA pearlberry and i can easily pic out a legit piece grown out in different tanks.

 

[Thmh]

And that's why there is a long waiting list for darryl's pearlberry ^_^

PEWPEW!

 

[Reef Hero]

[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=4385.msg40972#msg40972 date=1360958924]
[quote author=AdamS link=topic=4385.msg40926#msg40926 date=1360951008]
I tend to disagree about the naming, I would prefer changing the names. I have a few corals from darryl but he would probably rather i dont sell corals that i turned from an ugly rainbow of colours to a real nice soft tan/brown colour as MRT corals.

Thats not true.  If you have a coral that orginated from me please carry on the name if you want, I prefer it.  For multi-generational frags its important to me to know that Im getting the coral I want that I have seen else where.  For instance when I personally purchase any KNOWN collector coral I always first know how to adentify that coral (you wouldnt believe people who cant positively identify a coral they want) and I also ask what the source is.  So when I buy an ORA hawkins echinata for instance, first I know what it should look like and secondly if its being advertised as such I ask where the seller got it and how confident he is that it is the same linage.  It's nice to know that the coral Im getting is the exact coral that I have seen and read about and since others have been success with it that gives me a better chance. 

It can get tricky for sure though and that is why I say it is for fun.....because you can't take it too serious, there is no coral naming governing body.
[/quote]

I have an easier way...I just get them from you and take your word on it.

It seems to take a while to get 'into' the proper names for these things.  For example I had no idea I wanted a pearlberry until I saw one on your site.  I've now seen 10 variations online, and none of them look similar.  Plus, no question corals can change 100% from tank to tank.  I got a RR alien eye tort a while back, and I have a photo of what I got...blue green with yellow 'eyes' and very dense, close packed polyps.  What grew, was a light blue, sparse polyp stag or tort, that only now a year later is getting its 'eyes' back, but bears no resemblance to the original piece.  It's tough. 

I do keep a microsoft access database of everything I buy though...when purchased, from who, the name given and a picture of the original colony (if possible) and the actual frag.
[/quote]

How do you know the RR alien eye tort was maricultured for years at RR??? I have never heard of it.....


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[Darryl_V]

Its not....I've never heard of it either.

Can we do it like in the u.s. and call aquarium grown aquaculture and ocean grown cultured maricultured?  Thats what I have done for a while now and its less confusing.

RR doesnt grow corals.....they import wild coral, colour them up, give them a name, frag them up and sell them.  They might have an acro for while but not long enough to truly aquaculture it (grow a captive colony).  If you buy a frag from RR, unless its come from another hobbyist indirectly, its a frag from a wild piece.  The aquaculturing here will take place by the hobbyists who, say if they bought a RR avenger acro and successfully captive grow a colony, keep the coral and linage going by trading and selling frags as RR avengers.  When the coral is popular enough and people trust that they can grow it and keep it coloured they will seek it out.  In this case if 5 yrs from now someone knows about the avengers and wants a frag....well the name and where it came from is important.

We in Canada are far behind the U.S. in terms of aquaculture coral (aquarium grown), frag swaps is part of that.  A lot of us are just getting used to the name thing and what it means and to be honest it can mean different things to different people and its not sure fire thing but I do see it as being a good fun way to keep track of trusted aquacultured corals.

 

[Salty Cracker]

[quote author=Salty Cracker link=topic=4385.msg40975#msg40975 date=1360960344]
[quote author=Darryl_V link=topic=4385.msg40972#msg40972 date=1360958924]
[quote author=AdamS link=topic=4385.msg40926#msg40926 date=1360951008]
I tend to disagree about the naming, I would prefer changing the names. I have a few corals from darryl but he would probably rather i dont sell corals that i turned from an ugly rainbow of colours to a real nice soft tan/brown colour as MRT corals.

Thats not true.  If you have a coral that orginated from me please carry on the name if you want, I prefer it.  For multi-generational frags its important to me to know that Im getting the coral I want that I have seen else where.  For instance when I personally purchase any KNOWN collector coral I always first know how to adentify that coral (you wouldnt believe people who cant positively identify a coral they want) and I also ask what the source is.  So when I buy an ORA hawkins echinata for instance, first I know what it should look like and secondly if its being advertised as such I ask where the seller got it and how confident he is that it is the same linage.  It's nice to know that the coral Im getting is the exact coral that I have seen and read about and since others have been success with it that gives me a better chance. 

It can get tricky for sure though and that is why I say it is for fun.....because you can't take it too serious, there is no coral naming governing body.
[/quote]

I have an easier way...I just get them from you and take your word on it.

It seems to take a while to get 'into' the proper names for these things.  For example I had no idea I wanted a pearlberry until I saw one on your site.  I've now seen 10 variations online, and none of them look similar.  Plus, no question corals can change 100% from tank to tank.  I got a RR alien eye tort a while back, and I have a photo of what I got...blue green with yellow 'eyes' and very dense, close packed polyps.  What grew, was a light blue, sparse polyp stag or tort, that only now a year later is getting its 'eyes' back, but bears no resemblance to the original piece.  It's tough. 

I do keep a microsoft access database of everything I buy though...when purchased, from who, the name given and a picture of the original colony (if possible) and the actual frag.
[/quote]

How do you know the RR alien eye tort was maricultured for years at RR??? I have never heard of it.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
[/quote]

well  exactly, it was sold as a alien eye tort, that's what I logged it as when I got it.Here's a pic of the actual frag in the tank the day I got it, and to the right is the colony that grew.  To me, they look quite different. (I see the eyes were green not yellow).  And yes, I am 1000% sure it is the same piece

 

[Salty Cracker]

So that does make sense, I -know- it came from RR, but if it was a one-off wild caught specimen, then those of us who got the 1" frags of it are the only ones who have it, and in a tank, it looks more like, well, like the colony I have. 

If that's what they do with wildcaught colonies, man I'm not surprised that names are all goofy.  For example my little alien eye colony there,  I could rename it something else if it did indeed come from a single wildcaught... as the original has changed in the tank.  Unfortunately it got uglier.  That said, I would far and away prefer that I have the real original name (and I'll stick with what it was sold as unless I get a positive ID on it being something else).  I have absolutely no urge to change the name on anything, that's why I keep the database. 

To be honest, the new lights have brought the 'eyes' back out, but only when  the UV lights are on so far, where that first pic was under white lights.  I have high hopes for the colony, I really like some of the torts I got from Darryl, this one until now has been a bit bland

 

[Reef Hero]

@Bigshow
I am a little upset and disappointed with your reaction towards bill at IA. Bill is allowed to call the corals whatever he likes..... I thought you had been in the hobby long enough to understand this.....look around, everyone calls different corals the same name all the time......you said you purchased the corals, then from where? You get to put your title "BS" on corals.....did you dive and get them yourself? If not, then please don't be a hypocrite. Bill has clearly stated "IAS" in front of his so I don't know why you are so upset because yours say "BS" in front of yours.....
This is something you are going to have to get used to BIGSHOW.....you think it's frustrating for you, try being an end consumer like some of us....chalice are starting to become a big hit here just like the USA and made up names cannot be used to identify them or any coral..... Like Darryl said you have to know what you are looking for and understand that there are going to be very different corals with the same name......you should see what I got from fragalot as Pearlberry lol.....but in Burc's defense it does not say ORA, which leads me back again to the whole "IAS" and "BS" names.....to me bill has clearly stated these are not the same piece. I would  be more worried about his "IAS" title on pieces that are actually RR......but again this is nothing new and happens a lot.....
It is appreciated to inform people the pieces are not the same lineage but I did not like how bill was put down like this just for having the same names.....was bill claiming they are?? I was in there today and seen them in person and we even mentioned your (BIGSHOW) chalice too but bill made it clear his are different.....

 

[Reef Hero]

Its not....I've never heard of it either.

Can we do it like in the u.s. and call aquarium grown aquaculture and ocean grown cultured maricultured?  Thats what I have done for a while now and its less confusing.

RR doesnt grow corals.....they import wild coral, colour them up, give them a name, frag them up and sell them.  They might have an acro for while but not long enough to truly aquaculture it (grow a captive colony).  If you buy a frag from RR, unless its come from another hobbyist indirectly, its a frag from a wild piece.  The aquaculturing here will take place by the hobbyists who, say if they bought a RR avenger acro and successfully captive grow a colony, keep the coral and linage going by trading and selling frags as RR avengers.  When the coral is popular enough and people trust that they can grow it and keep it coloured they will seek it out.  In this case if 5 yrs from now someone knows about the avengers and wants a frag....well the name and where it came from is important.

We in Canada are far behind the U.S. in terms of aquaculture coral (aquarium grown), frag swaps is part of that.  A lot of us are just getting used to the name thing and what it means and to be honest it can mean different things to different people and its not sure fire thing but I do see it as being a good fun way to keep track of trusted aquacultured corals.

I was about to say this..... RR does colour them up quite nice! Whereas fragalot does not.....both have the same suppliers from what I know.....not the same price tag tho....haha


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[BIGSHOW]

@Bigshow
I am a little upset and disappointed with your reaction towards bill at IA. Bill is allowed to call the corals whatever he likes..... I thought you had been in the hobby long enough to understand this.....look around, everyone calls different corals the same name all the time......you said you purchased the corals, then from where? You get to put your title \"BS\" on corals.....did you dive and get them yourself? If not, then please don't be a hypocrite. Bill has clearly stated \"IAS\" in front of his so I don't know why you are so upset because yours say \"BS\" in front of yours.....
This is something you are going to have to get used to BIGSHOW.....you think it's frustrating for you, try being an end consumer like some of us....chalice are starting to become a big hit here just like the USA and made up names cannot be used to identify them or any coral..... Like Darryl said you have to know what you are looking for and understand that there are going to be very different corals with the same name......you should see what I got from fragalot as Pearlberry lol.....but in Burc's defense it does not say ORA, which leads me back again to the whole \"IAS\" and \"BS\" names.....to me bill has clearly stated these are not the same piece. I would  be more worried about his \"IAS\" title on pieces that are actually RR......but again this is nothing new and happens a lot.....
It is appreciated to inform people the pieces are not the same lineage but I did not like how bill was put down like this just for having the same names.....was bill claiming they are?? I was in there today and seen them in person and we even mentioned your (BIGSHOW) chalice too but bill made it clear his are different.....

A simple phone call or email letting me know that he had purchased similar coral and that he wanted to use the same names as mine would of went a long way.  Why he would not just make up his own unique identifying name still boggles my mind (calling it an IA Purple Pills vs a BS Purple Pills is hardly a different name).  I made up my own stupid names so that when there are aqua cultured and distributed amongst reefers they would know the exact lineage of there piece. 

Everyone is entitled to there opinion, as am I, but I have to say I am still very disappointed about this and I think the best thing to do is let the buyers decide what they want to buy and who they want to buy from.

Maybe it was a bit of an emotional reaction, but when you spend thousands of dollars and culture these pieces yourself it gets a little frustrating when you wake up to emails from several people asking me if Bill has bought my coral.

You will notice that I don't name all my pieces I bring in from suppliers, I was simply naming the high end collector pieces as they are truly unique wild specimens, that I am trying to aquaculture and keep in Canada.

I don't expect everyone to agree, but I do think I have the right to voice my displeasure with it.  There is a lot of opinions I don't like, but such is life.

The conversation has been pretty civil and I think everyone has there own feelings on this subject. 

I mean...this thread got how many posts/views today

 

[spyd]

When I buy frags from people, I keep their given names out of respect for the reefer that has succesfully grew this colony. So for instance, an MRT Sunset Milli will all ways be called that when I go sell frags once my colony grows up. I have a BS Hulk Carolinia and will keep that name going. You guys are the ones that found these nice corals and were able to successfully grow them to colonies and I have a lot of respect for that.

 

[BIGSHOW]

When I buy frags from people, I keep their given names out of respect for the reefer that has succesfully grew this colony. So for instance, an MRT Sunset Milli will all ways be called that when I go sell frags once my colony grows up. I have a BS Hulk Carolinia and will keep that name going. You guys are the ones that found these nice corals and were able to successfully grow them to colonies and I have a lot of respect for that.

Thanks Derek! Respect in this hobby goes a long way.  I also like to give the respect to the hobbyist or store who decided to uniquely name there collector pieces.  As Darryl said it is fun to keep it going and see where your babies end up.

 

[Reef Hero]

I liked how civil this thread has remained as well and I also liked to see everyone's diff views and opinions.....this is a great forum for that!! I hope that I did not offend you in anyway Dave (BIGSHOW) and your response was very mature and appropriate IMO..... I can understand your frustration and I am sure I would be the same.....
I don't think anyone can touch your chalice specimens from what I have seen so I doubt you have much to worry about
I also keep the same name and always say where I got the coral from.....I buy a lot from fragalot and burc does not name his stuff most of the time when you are buying in person so I just make up my own or look online for something similar but always say its from fragalot......I wish I had a sweet abbreviation like RR for reef raft haha


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[BIGSHOW]

I liked how civil this thread has remained as well and I also liked to see everyone's diff views and opinions.....this is a great forum for that!! I hope that I did not offend you in anyway Dave (BIGSHOW) and your response was very mature and appropriate IMO..... I can understand your frustration and I am sure I would be the same.....
I don't think anyone can touch your chalice specimens from what I have seen so I doubt you have much to worry about


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No offense taken, emotions can run high and peoples passions can make things a bit blurry.  I hold very little grudges on people.... and peoples opinions on naming a coral is not going to sway my opinion of anyone here on this forum.  I encourage people to speak up, this is the only way issues get resolved (as long as things stay civil)

Dave