Kudos to the Truckers

[TORX]

If the vaccine is the way out and so great, they why do the close places were only vaccinated people can go?

The smoking analogy is misconstrued as even if you are vaccinated, you can still catch and spread it so it doesn't matter the vaccination status of the person next to you. If you are vaccinated, then you have nothing to worry about.

Either the vaccine works or it doesn't. If it works, then people should be confident in their choice to get it and comfortable around people who don't. Actually you should be more scared of vaccinated because there is a higher chance they have it and do not know it. I don't have the epidemiology report in front of me but something like >85% cases don't know where they got it. That is because vaccinated covid positive are typically asymptomatic making it impossible to trace.

If it doesn't work, then why are we doing it and making it mandatory or you loose your job?

Blocking people from restaurants and shopping solely based on vaccine status is wrong. When did you last have to show vaccine cards to go shopping? More of the population has been vaccinated from COVID then have up to date childhood vaccines. How about the flu shot? The flu that killed more children in just 2018 then the last 2 years of COVID combined.

To note, I made the choice to get vaccinated. I respect people's decision not to be.

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[TORX]

As for the Convoy, it is full of truckers, police, emergency personnel...teachers, nurses, doctors, it is for everyone.

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[TORX]

The majority decides, since we (Canada) make effort to operate as a democracy. Democracy doesn't mean everyone gets what they want, it means that when faced with a polarizing issue everyone is invited to chime in, and the law or policy is based on what is said by the most people., not who says their opinion the loudest. Do you have a driver's license? Is it mandated? Yes. Does it guarantee or directly prevent you from getting drunk or speeding or stunt driving, and hitting a family with your car? No. Is it meant to minimize the risk of you improperly operating your vehicle? Yes. Seatbelts don't guarantee you won't get severely injured but they help mitigate that risk and in the event you do get injured, hopefully they reduce the severity.

You are right, Democracy doesn't mean everyone gets what they want, it means that when faced with a polarizing issue everyone is invited to chime in, and the law or policy is based on what is said by the most people, not who says their opinion the loudest. That is how this discussion started was that we are allowed to chime in and have our opinion. Just like you are. That is how people communicate and is fundamental to society.

Most of the other arguments about drivers license, seat belt, smoking etc are all backed by science and decades of research. The vaccine is new and there is virtually no science for the short or long term. If the science was sound and true, then it wouldn't change weekly.

To follow up with why mandates are confusing and why they need to stop. You need to be vaccinated to go to a restaurant but the servers and cooks do not need to be. You need to self isolate if in contact with a case, unless you are a cop or nurse. There is no vax mandate for federal employees but make it mandatory for truck drivers who spend the majority of their life alone in a truck. Your nurse could knowingly be covid positive and treating you regardless of your vaccination status or medical history. If I wake up with a headache I can not go to work for 5 days regardless of what the test says, my kid has a stuffy nose...same thing, no school for 5 days regardless of the test. The nurse assisting in ICU can go to work COVID positive. The cop who's family is isolating for COVID positive is still allowed to go to the grocery store, work, bring pets into the vets.

 

[Sasha T]

You are right, Democracy doesn't mean everyone gets what they want, it means that when faced with a polarizing issue everyone is invited to chime in, and the law or policy is based on what is said by the most people, not who says their opinion the loudest. That is how this discussion started was that we are allowed to chime in and have our opinion. Just like you are. That is how people communicate and is fundamental to society.

Agreed.

Most of the other arguments about drivers license, seat belt, smoking etc are all backed by science and decades of research. The vaccine is new and there is virtually no science for the short or long term. If the science was sound and true, then it wouldn't change weekly.

Which comes back to one of my previous requests for clarification: What is the alternative? We don't have the ability to predict with 100% accuracy the repercussions or consequences, it's all based on what information is available right now, and each week the scientific community gets more information because this is a new situation, with a new virus and a new vaccine. "Only three things in life are certain: birth, death, and change"

To follow up with why mandates are confusing and why they need to stop. You need to be vaccinated to go to a restaurant but the servers and cooks do not need to be. You need to self isolate if in contact with a case, unless you are a cop or nurse. There is no vax mandate for federal employees but make it mandatory for truck drivers who spend the majority of their life alone in a truck. Your nurse could knowingly be covid positive and treating you regardless of your vaccination status or medical history.

Actually according to Restaurants Canada servers and cooks can be required by their employer to be vaccinated, with stipulations similar to those for the general public wearing masks and being vaccinated. But since restaurants are not vital services but rather a "luxury" industry operating on private property, there's no pressing need for a federal mandate, whereas a trucker is travelling via federally regulated laws and regulations. A motion to mandate all federal employees, not just those working in the public sector, be vaccinated was proposed last month. And there is a directive for public hospitals to have staff vaccinated, my assumption (and only an assumption) is that whereas a mandate is enforceable under law, the directive acts as contingency in the event that hospitals continue to be short staffed. If they are federally prohibited from being able to call in "high risk" employees due to vaccination or infection status, the result is loss of health care and potentially life.

 

[Salty Cracker]

I follow laws. Every one of them.
These are mandates, because he can't make them law unless he rejects personal rights, and he will lose in supreme court, that's why they don't want to push the issue into law.

This is NOT a democracy. Trudeau has a minority government, but is making policy himself. This is a literal dictatorship, and honestly, those yelling to lock up and shun the "unvaxxed" are idiots, plain and simple. In fact, trudeau is the one yelling the loudest, and there is no debate. "The science shall not be questioned".

Your smoking example is skewed. Is the guy beside you allowed to smoke in that restaurant? If not, they he/she is in the wrong and will be asked to extinguish and/or leave. IF the establishment allows smoking, and you don't like smoke, then you are in the wrong spot. It's not the same. To make your analogy correct, I would have to go literally to your home, and pull the cigarette out of your mouth, and tell you that you can't smoke because it is unsafe to me, even though I am 500000 miles away. THAT is what this mandate is.

(People really shouldn't smoke, and to be honest, smoking shouldn't be legal in a public funded healthcare system, but it is, because they make a lot of tax off it.)

Oh and I would GLADLY pay for private health care. Take that percentage off my taxes, and I'm good, but it's not the system that is in place, because some people would get much better healthcare IF they could afford it, and in a socialistic environment, that is seen as unfair. So we all are dragged down to the same level, because someone would be offended. What would the harm be in allowing private hospitals in Canada? Again, I can't get good healthcare because some crack head can't afford it. Last time in the ER I quite literally had a meth head lying on my foot throwing a fit because he wanted to get service first, and I'll be damned if they took him before myself, and I had been there for 4 hours. Great system.

Sorry, but I don't think I'm going to argue with you any more. Your analogies are not as deep as I thought, you should watch the jordan peterson interview with the woman who said people are like lobsters, you're doing the same thing. Now be clear, I'm not saying I'm as smart as jordan peterson, I'm saying you're arguing on the same level as the interviewer.

For example: If I DON'T want to drive, then I DON'T need a license, and nobody starts calling for someone to FORCE me to get a license. It's not the same thing, you keep moving the pieces to match your narrative, instead of working with the pieces you have, and arguing from there. Anyway, best wishes, good luck, you're probably going to need both.

 

[Sasha T]

If the vaccine is the way out and so great, they why do the close places were only vaccinated people can go?

Because as I mentioned, it's a stop gap, it's the best of what we have right now and while it's showing to be effective, it's not a 100% guarantee.

The smoking analogy is misconstrued as even if you are vaccinated, you can still catch and spread it so it doesn't matter the vaccination status of the person next to you. If you are vaccinated, then you have nothing to worry about.

That's not what I was inferring.

Either the vaccine works or it doesn't.

It's highly effective for the virus as it existed when it was designed, and proves to be effective with current mutations, even even at the outset the medical community did not have a majority agreement that it would be a "magic bullet" with a 100% efficacy.

If it works, then people should be confident in their choice to get it and comfortable around people who don't. Actually you should be more scared of vaccinated because there is a higher chance they have it and do not know it. I don't have the epidemiology report in front of me but something like >85% cases don't know where they got it. That is because vaccinated covid positive are typically asymptomatic making it impossible to trace.

Did the epidemiology report say that 85% of those infected were unsure of where they got it, or that 85% of those who were vaccinated and contracted the virus were unsure, that's a bit of a distinction. It isn't "get the vaccine and you can go back to normal", it's "get the vaccine and you're less likely to contract it, and less likely to have a severe response", so I won't defend people who confuse "vaccination" with "immunity".

If it doesn't work, then why are we doing it and making it mandatory or you loose your job?

See above starting "It's highly effective..."

Blocking people from restaurants and shopping solely based on vaccine status is wrong. When did you last have to show vaccine cards to go shopping?

Never. Who's getting blocked from shopping based on vaccination status? I've definitely never had to disclose my status during the limited shopping I've done. (hardware stores, grocery stores and of course pet stores) I've had 3 doses, but my shopping/social habits have not changed since the pandemic started because as you say, asymptomatic infection and transmission is a thing.

More of the population has been vaccinated from COVID then have up to date childhood vaccines. How about the flu shot? The flu that killed more children in just 2018 then the last 2 years of COVID combined.

Ignoring boosters, it's estimated that 78.7% of Canadians have received 2 doses. That's lower than the national childhood full vaccination rates for Polio, Mumps, Measles, Rubella, Varicella, Meningococcal Type C, and Pneumococcal. We don't typically have "cures" for viruses, we have preventative (vaccines) treatments. It should also be noted that of the 186 flu-associated deaths in the 2017-2018 flu season, approximately 80% were not vaccinated.

To note, I made the choice to get vaccinated. I respect people's decision not to be.

So do I, but at the same time unless presented with an alternative to address public health, I don't see a reason not the make the distinction between the potential results of the two choices either.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Here's what bugs me:

Considering coof had a 99.97% survival rate, there never should have been a "vaccine" in the first place.
As soon as this trial vaccine was proven to not protect the recipient from covid, it should have been discontinued.
As soon as pfixer refused to disclose the contents, it should have been discontinued.
The FIRST time someone died as a direct result of the vaccine, it should have been discontinued.
The FIRST time someone died after being told "the vaccine lessens the impact of the virus", it should have been cancelled.

The FACT that people are not only touting it's merits, but indeed wanting it forced into others is clown world. Have you ever tried to argue with a clown? It's frustrating because they keep honking their noses and pointing at their shoes, then doing a flourish like they accomplished something.

We are living in clown world, and the clowns in the clown car keep trying to force more clowns into it.
Not everybody likes the circus.

I quite literally, and there's no other way to put it, I literally own a company that does drug and vaccine trials on humans.
Let me give you an example of why this is clown world. The FDA "approved" this vaccine on short test results on something like 10 people.
Conversely, we currently have a drug that will ease symptoms for people with chrons disease. Not sure it, just ease some of the symptoms. Just today we were told we can't proceed until we have FIVE YEAR DATA from 36 PATIENTS.

the coof vax was approved in 7 months based on 10 people not dying.

Now we get "experts" saying that this should be FORCED on everyone, because reasons?

CLOWN WORLD.

 

[Salty Cracker]

CLOWN WORLD

 

[Sasha T]

I follow laws. Every one of them.
These are mandates, because he can't make them law unless he rejects personal rights, and he will lose in supreme court, that's why they don't want to push the issue into law. This is NOT a democracy. Trudeau has a minority government, but is making policy himself. This is a literal dictatorship, and honestly, those yelling to lock up and shun the "unvaxxed" are idiots, plain and simple. In fact, trudeau is the one yelling the loudest, and there is no debate. "The science shall not be questioned".

Mandates and laws differ in who issues them, you're correct. But it's slightly disingenuous to suggest it's a matter of "he", as provinces can issue them, and several countries as I listed earlier already have vaccination mandates stricter than ours. It is in no means a literal dictatorship, or we would both be enroute to the gulag by week's end.

Your smoking example is skewed. Is the guy beside you allowed to smoke in that restaurant? If not, they he/she is in the wrong and will be asked to extinguish and/or leave. IF the establishment allows smoking, and you don't like smoke, then you are in the wrong spot. It's not the same.

This is off the premise that you made supporting bodily autonomy ("No one can tell me what I should do with my body). So why would I listen to "not being allowed" to smoke in a restaurant?

To make your analogy correct, I would have to go literally to your home,

Who's going to peoples homes checking vacc status? In our restaurant example, it's a public place, not a private dwelling.

and pull the cigarette out of your mouth,

No one is holding ppl down to vaccinate them, you're equating an inconvenience to an affront on human dignity

and tell you that you can't smoke because it is unsafe to me, even though I am 500000 miles away.

It's a rule for a country of 34 million people, but the virus is spread locally. And since the virus doesn't act differently based on geography, I'm not sure what the 500,000 miles has to do with it.

THAT is what this mandate is.

It really isn't.

(People really shouldn't smoke, and to be honest, smoking shouldn't be legal in a public funded healthcare system, but it is, because they make a lot of tax off it.)

Agreed, same with alcohol.

Oh and I would GLADLY pay for private health care. Take that percentage off my taxes, and I'm good, but it's not the system that is in place, because some people would get much better healthcare IF they could afford it, and in a socialistic environment, that is seen as unfair.
So we all are dragged down to the same level, because someone would be offended. What would the harm be in allowing private hospitals in Canada?

... there are. 45.

Again, I can't get good healthcare because some crack head can't afford it. Last time in the ER I quite literally had a meth head lying on my foot throwing a fit because he wanted to get service first, and I'll be damned if they took him before myself, and I had been there for 4 hours. Great system.

Never said the system was perfect, but if my choice is people getting shitty care vs people being dead it's not much of a head scratcher. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to fix the shitty care though, and one of the reasons vaccine mandates are a good idea so that we don't have people in the ER/hospital that wouldn't be there if they were vacc'd.

Sorry, but I don't think I'm going to argue with you any more. Your analogies are not as deep as I thought, you should watch the jordan peterson interview with the woman who said people are like lobsters, you're doing the same thing. Now be clear, I'm not saying I'm as smart as jordan peterson, I'm saying you're arguing on the same level as the interviewer.

For example: If I DON'T want to drive, then I DON'T need a license, and nobody starts calling for someone to FORCE me to get a license. It's not the same thing, you keep moving the pieces to match your narrative, instead of working with the pieces you have, and arguing from there. Anyway, best wishes, good luck, you're probably going to need both.

S'all good, as I was reading your post I could sense you were starting to feel some hostility so I was going to bow out before you beat me to it.

 

[Luke.]

There’s something that rubs me the wrong way when people “don’t want” to wear a mask ESPECIALLY in the food industry.. vaccinated or not , isn’t it just more of a respect thing? If it’s medical reasons sure I get it , but I’ve had to wear masks in ghetto apartment buildings in 30+ degree heat carrying 100+ pound windows up from 1st-4th floor with no elevator (ventilation windows or even ac) no air movement , I’d see stars dancing in front of me I’d be so exhausted with a mask on lmao it sucks ass , but I think it’s a respect thing .. idk 75% of my family will never get vaccinated and a few of them don’t even believe in masks etc . Unfortunately with my family it’s hard to have a nice open conversation about it .. just some stubborn French men and newfies lol

 

[Luke.]

@Salty Cracker
Bud , everyone use to tell me to get your license even if you don’t drive , it could make or break you getting a job with the same joe with a license gunning for that spot lmao just messin with ya !

 

[TORX]

Quebec just announced that you must be vaccinated to get into Costco and Walmart's and pushing to make it all retail stores. If getting food at Walmart or Costco you will be escorted by an employee to make sure you do not enter other areas of the stores.
Restaurants require vaccine passports here in Ontario. Liberal party is trying to push through vaccine passports at LCBO and Marijuana shops. This is only the beginning. When is the right time to stop them?

As you said, "It's highly effective". So if you are vaccinated, then what does it matter if someone else isn't? Why make all these mandates and rules, either it works or it doesnt. You can still catch it and transmit it whether you are vaccinated or not. I know several people who have had COVID and only surround themselves with vaccinated people.

You are right, 78.7% of Canadians have received 2 doses. According to JT almost 90% of eligible Canadians are fully vaccinated. The only reason it is not higher is because kids can not get their second one yet and under 2 still can not be vaccinated at all.

In 2019, 90% of 2-year-olds in Canada had been vaccinated against measles, and 78% had been vaccinated against diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus, relatively unchanged from two years earlier.

The vast majority of 2-year-olds (92%) had received the polio vaccine, while nearly three-quarters (74%) had been vaccinated against Haemophilius influenzae type b (Hib).

Approximately 91% of 2-year-olds had received the meningococcal C vaccine, up from 88% in 2017.

Vaccination rates against pneumococcal diseases (84%) and varicella (83%), also known as chicken pox, were relatively unchanged from 2017 to 2019.

When do have you needed to show your vaccine status to get into a restaurant for those?

So do I, but at the same time unless presented with an alternative to address public health, I don't see a reason not the make the distinction between the potential results of the two choices either.

There is, instead of spending billions of dollars a week on CERB, CRB and other programs and billions of dollars a week on promoting the vaccine that is not anywhere near 100% and put that money into the medical staffing to support them through this. There is also medications specifically for treating COVID now as well. There are options for people. Most of what people are scared of is the original COVID Beta which has been gone since July of 2021

Again, this Freedom Convoy is about ending mandates and giving people the right to choose. We know the information and people should have the right to choose, move freely in our own country and not fear job loss over our vaccine status.

 

[Salty Cracker]

CLOWN WORLD

Mandates and laws differ in who issues them, you're correct. But it's slightly disingenuous to suggest it's a matter of "he", as provinces can issue them, and several countries as I listed earlier already have vaccination mandates stricter than ours. It is in no means a literal dictatorship, or we would both be enroute to the gulag by week's end.

This is off the premise that you made supporting bodily autonomy ("No one can tell me what I should do with my body). So why would I listen to "not being allowed" to smoke in a restaurant?



Who's going to peoples homes checking vacc status? In our restaurant example, it's a public place, not a private dwelling.

No one is holding ppl down to vaccinate them, you're equating an inconvenience to an affront on human dignity

It's a rule for a country of 34 million people, but the virus is spread locally. And since the virus doesn't act differently based on geography, I'm not sure what the 500,000 miles has to do with it.

It really isn't.

Agreed, same with alcohol.

... there are. 45.

Never said the system was perfect, but if my choice is people getting shitty care vs people being dead it's not much of a head scratcher. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to fix the shitty care though, and one of the reasons vaccine mandates are a good idea so that we don't have people in the ER/hospital that wouldn't be there if they were vacc'd.

S'all good, as I was reading your post I could sense you were starting to feel some hostility so I was going to bow out before you beat me to it.

How do you tell me that you worship the cbc, without telling me you worship the cbc?

If there is even ONE "fully vaccinated" person in an ICU or hospital bed, your whole argument is moot. What you are saying is that THE VAXXED person has more right to be there, because they did the "right thing" and submitted. Oh sure it didn't vaccinate them from anything except common sense, but the whole concept that vaccinated "deserve" that spot, and that an unvaccinated is taking something from others, is so actually retarded that I don't know where to start, and I don't care to.

Come back with something substantial, because I don't want to argue with a parrot. Debating is one thing, but just doing "I know you are but what am I" like you did above (I'll be honest, I didn't read it), is trolling. I welcome your opinion, but considering my smoking analogy went sailing so far over your head that I managed to hit the building behind you, it's seriously getting tired.

The only thing immunized by this vaccine is pfizer.


CLOWN WORLD

 

[TORX]

The best part of all of this is that it has divided our country and made us weaker. People should respect each others right to choose. We need to come back together. However one group says that and means forcing people to get vaccinated and follow mandates and the other group says get vaccinated if you want, we will respect both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

 

[Salty Cracker]

@Salty Cracker
Bud , everyone use to tell me to get your license even if you don’t drive , it could make or break you getting a job with the same joe with a license gunning for that spot lmao just messin with ya !

True, and I agree. BUT they don't tell everyone else that you are an outcast and shouldn't be allowed in places that others ARE allowed, if you don't get a license. Hell, an unlicensed person can still use parking lots and roads, they just can't drive a motor vehicle. Crazy analogy.

I believe he thinks this is FB and a gang of pro-vaxxers will swoop in and argue for him.

I had a crazy woman at remark in London hyde park about a year ago now. She DEMANDED that I put on a mask in the parking lot. I was with my son, who was 16 at the time. I said "no I'm good", and she proceeded to LOSE HER MIND. She started yelling at me, told me she wished I effin dropped dead, and that I probably beat my wife and "why is nobody calling 911!!!!!" at the top of her lungs. Glad I had my son as witness, because it was a crowning event. Because I was just smiling and staring at her, she got more and more and more irate (I wanted a sandwich, she was free to leave if she was that concerned). The store DID call the cops, but because she had started screeching at everyone else in line because they weren't yelling at me with her, SHE ended up getting trespassed from the store by police. I actually got a $10 off coupon from the manager. I even winked at her when I was leaving, because she was SURE the cops were there for me, and when the realization hit..... man o man that was almost a mental orgasm. Even when she was shrieking in line I said "you know this isn't facebook right, this is real life!?!?" I think that was possibly the best egg sandwich I ever had that day, even though I had noticed that they had started using smaller pieces of bread. But it's that kind of mentality, where there is no real argument except "the science says" or "public safety" or "you owe it to others", and hoping for a mob to rush in. Just nonsense catch phrases that come right from the cbc (or direct from the PMO really).

 

[Salty Cracker]

The best part of all of this is that it has divided our country and made us weaker. People should respect each others right to choose. We need to come back together. However one group says that and means forcing people to get vaccinated and follow mandates and the other group says get vaccinated if you want, we will respect both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

EXACTLY.

I knew there was a reason I liked you.

"the unvaxxed shouldn't be taking ICU beds from the vaccinated". You see how the government and media (same thing) has taken the humanity out of it? It's not fellow human beings, it's "the unvaxxed vs vaxxed" and suddenly, those "things" don't deserve the same rights as the obedient "things". The whole point of any of this is that segmenting a part of society, and then chastising and casting them out, is no different from the salem witch trials or what islam does to homosexuals. It strips away the humanity, and leaves "things" that should be removed, censured and perhaps locked up (and eventually, executed).

And those that argue it, are not seeing the big picture, and that sooner or later, THEY will be the "things" that has to be chastised, and a whole new set of mandates come into play. Those that see this as a health issue don't get what is really going on.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Who's going to peoples homes checking vacc status? In our restaurant example, it's a public place, not a private dwelling.

No one is holding ppl down to vaccinate them, you're equating an inconvenience to an affront on human dignity

Here, right here, you actually "got" what we are arguing for, and why the truckers are doing what they are doing.
TODAY nobody is holding us down, but just how long before they are.

Leftist logic: It's wrong to center out anyone based on skin creed race or religion, but fuck those anti vaxxers, they should sit at the back of the bus, or hell, that is "public" transportation, they can stay home completely. Gosh we're so progressive.

 

[Salty Cracker]

 

[TORX]

Also they are not physically holding people down. They just say get vaccinated or loose your job. Get vaccinated or quit school (some school, especially college have mandatory in class credits). Get vaccinated or you can not go into a restaurant. Get vaccinated or you can not play sports. People say, you have a choice, which it is, but that type of choice is called coercion. People also need to stop saying that is a luxury to do those things and not a right. It is a right to move freely in our country and not be excluded for our medical choices.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Why the media blackout indeed?