cloudy water

[Salty Cracker]

regardless of this \"experiment\" working or failing it doesn't change the fact that in just 24-36 hours no reef tank is going to be ready and able to keep livestock PROPERLY. I don't care if it cycled in 5 minutes or 2 days.. if you think that the bacteria populations that are needed to keep a successful reef tank will just magically appear overnight, your either nuts, or highly misinformed on the inner workings of the chemistry behind our tanks.. I Don't doubt some products ability to remove ammonia from tank water.. we all know that products like Prime, Stability, Amquel all do this quite well. If you dose these yes its going to remove the ammonia and yes some possibly will be converted to nitrates, but in no way shape or form can you consider that as an indication that your tank is completely cycled and ready to go, The experiment is useless as far as im concerned because its been talked about over and over and over again for years on EVERY reef site on the web. Take your time + Cycle your tank properly = Success..  Rushing things + inexperience = Failure.. its that simple. And I think the OP has proven this quite well.. for a second time in the last few months.

THIS

There are no ends to the pills and potions a LFS will sell you when you tell them what your problem is, or what you want to do.  Want to set up a reef in 2 days? Well dump in 5 bottles of this crap, a dash of this, some of those and there you go.  That will be $230 thankyouverymuch.  Then, when you go back time and time again, asking why all the corals you bought from them died, they happily sell you a batch of potions that 'fixes' the problems they set you up with originally.  Then, to round out the awesomeness, somewhere down the line they'll say something like "too bad you can't figure out basic water chemistry".  Awesome.

Take the advice that you don't want to.  It takes MONTHS or YEARS to set up a tank.  It will do it on its own, but you need to follow the advice of the guys here that are offering it for free (and not selling potions).  If you want an awesome sps tank, ask the guy that has an awesome sps tank how he got it, and don't look for the shortcuts.  SHORTCUTS DON'T WORK.  Take it from a guy that wasted 15 years buying potions...and not listening to GOOD advice...

 

[reeffreak]

wait it out as long as your perimeters are in where they should be ,i wouldnt of added the pellets for a couple of weeks min on a new setup like yours

This is also false, when setting up new the pellets should be added as soon as possible. With phosphates that high water changes are pretty much needed along with gfo .

 

[reefin]

I have been reading and following this thread and a few others over the last few days. I have been in the fresh water hobby for almost 40 years since I was about 9 or 10 years old. I have been in the saltwater hobby for about 20 years. I have built and maintained several outdoor ponds and indoor aquariums and seen them all flourish by letting nature do what nature does best. Several people that I have helped over the years ask me how do you keep your water so clear! Same answer each time. Stop mucking with the science! Let the pond or fish tank do what it needs to do! It will react to its life in the way it sees fit to do so. The filtration is the best way to control anything it needs to control whether it is mechanical, biological or even chemical. I get the whole "I want to put fish in my pond now" or "I want to put fish in my tank now salt or fresh" syndrome. We have all been there and paid a heavy price in doing so. There are magic potions in all places of life and each time we see the potions work for a little bit or not at all and there are a lot of rich people in this world that prove that. There is one thing that I have learned in this hobby and that it you can't rush life! I will crash on you sooner or later, you will add this or add that and chase parameters all over the place. I guess that's what make these kinds of forums popular as well. We like to see what everyone else is doing or not doing. Success is measured in the beautiful tanks that you see here and on other sites. Look to those people for the answers. I bet they won't steer you wrong.

That said, 

Experimenting is great! Debate is great! That's what brings new improvements to the hobby regardless.  JMO 

 

[yveterinarian]

All the ammonia method talks about is introducing the ammonia in the forum of.....ammonia.  You can add ammonia to tanks a number of ways (fish waste).  This ammonia test will have no bearing on the product being discussed.

\"Once you've reached the desired level, you now need to wait for the bacteria to multiply and do their job. It may take several days to a couple of weeks for your ammonia test to register zero. Once it does, add the same number of drops of ammonia again. Keep repeating this many times, each time waiting until ammonia reads zero, until finally the ammonia test goes to zero within 8–12 hours of the addition of ammonia.\"

The questions we all want answered is....Can this magical potion of bacteria survive in the tank for more then just the time it takes to initially convert the newly introduced ammonia in the tank.  Can this bacteria reproduce and continually breakdown the ammonia?

That's what the ammonia test should tell you.  If it doesn't survive long enough how would it convert the ammonia?  If it does, it should convert the ammonia every time I put it in and it should be zero after 8-12 hours.  If it isn't then it's not surviving long enough.  I know ammonia can be added in a variety of ways, but so can other bacteria (off the fish, live rock, live sand, etc).  The truest test of this bacteria alone would be by adding nothing else that can add other bacteria.  That's what a scientific experiment should do - eliminate other influences that may become present through the addition of outside things.

I realize that it sounds too good to be true that this bacteria cycles the tank so quickly but Pulp's experience should count for something.  The medical field wouldn't have advanced if people never tried new things and to me, this feels similar.  Just think of penicillin or insulin as a few examples of things that sounded too good to be true but work very well. The bacteria I use would never convert this quickly, so I'm just as sceptical but I'm willing to keep an open mind and see if this works. I think it would be very interesting.

Pulp:  what are the instructions on the bottle?  Would you be willing for me to conduct the experiment?

 

[pulpfiction1]

Re: Re: cloudy water

[quote author=pulpfiction1 link=topic=3632.msg31175#msg31175 date=1353713433]
wait it out as long as your perimeters are in where they should be ,i wouldnt of added the pellets for a couple of weeks min on a new setup like yours

This is also false, when setting up new the pellets should be added as soon as possible. With phosphates that high water changes are pretty much needed along with gfo .
[/quote]actually with the amount of bacteria he introduced into that system  the pellets were obviously overstimulate it

Sent from my HTC Incredible S

 

[reeffreak]

Re: Re: cloudy water

[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=3632.msg31314#msg31314 date=1353863255]
[quote author=pulpfiction1 link=topic=3632.msg31175#msg31175 date=1353713433]
wait it out as long as your perimeters are in where they should be ,i wouldnt of added the pellets for a couple of weeks min on a new setup like yours

This is also false, when setting up new the pellets should be added as soon as possible. With phosphates that high water changes are pretty much needed along with gfo .
[/quote]actually with the amount of bacteria he introduced into that system  the pellets were obviously overstimulate it

Sent from my HTC Incredible S
[/quote]

whats that have to do with phosphates and changing water to control them, are you saying the pellets caused the phophates ?

 

[pulpfiction1]

Re: Re: Re: cloudy water

[quote author=pulpfiction1 link=topic=3632.msg31323#msg31323 date=1353868948]
[quote author=reeffreak link=topic=3632.msg31314#msg31314 date=1353863255]
[quote author=pulpfiction1 link=topic=3632.msg31175#msg31175 date=1353713433]
wait it out as long as your perimeters are in where they should be ,i wouldnt of added the pellets for a couple of weeks min on a new setup like yours

This is also false, when setting up new the pellets should be added as soon as possible. With phosphates that high water changes are pretty much needed along with gfo .
[/quote]actually with the amount of bacteria he introduced into that system  the pellets were obviously overstimulate it

Sent from my HTC Incredible S
[/quote]

whats that have to do with phosphates and changing water to control them, are you saying the pellets caused the phophates ?
[/quote]never said nothing of the sort ,just saying the pellets caused  the bloom just as you stated rate in the beginning of this thread

Sent from my HTC Incredible S

 

[reeffreak]

Ya but my comment today wasn't about pellets it was about you saying not to change the water which is false so is the statement about adding pellets weeks after the tank is setup, that's what I was referring too.

 

[pulpfiction1]

well if you were following the thread a little closer,you would of read that he should wait out the bloom caused the pellets

 

[unibob]

The conclusion I am getting from this thread is that... None of us know anything about this cycle speed up in a bottle except for Pulp and Brandon. So whatever goes wrong with brandons tank...he should just PM pulp to get his answer?

 

[pulpfiction1]

The conclusion I am getting from this thread is that... None of us know anything about this cycle speed up in a bottle except for Pulp and Brandon. So whatever goes wrong with brandons tank...he should just PM pulp to get his answer?

i got no problem with that

 

[pulpfiction1]

a simple gfo will take care of phosphates for him confused?i dont think so

i have used it on countless systems and brandon now has used it on 2
here is another on the market,expect more to surface,maybe you should harass them as well



http://www.hdltd.com/products/p_rightnow.html

 

[Poseidon]

The conclusion I am getting from this thread is that... None of us know anything about this cycle speed up in a bottle except for Pulp and Brandon. So whatever goes wrong with brandons tank...he should just PM pulp to get his answer?

That's what I will/am doing.

I didn't mean to start all this sh*t .

I know everyone has their own opinion and I respect that but we ALL get a little to into these arguemnt / debates and it's not healthy for thefragtank.  I want to keep using the site and asking questions but it becomes difficult if we have grudges against eachother because of a controversial topic(s).

I shall listen to some of the advice in this thread whether I admit it or not . Lol
Every thing said absorbs as info.

I apologize for the mess or If I was rude to anyone. I didn't mean anything personal

As for the tank
It's completely cleared up. All levels are good. I will take it slow and not add anything for a while, just let it sit. I will start acquiring sps frags and keep
Them in my frag tank though as that system is doing well. 

As for the opposition , especially reef freak and duke... No hard feelings, I respect your experience  and appreciate your input but were gonna have to agree to disagree on the product.

To pulp, keep sellin the product, if its as good as you and I think it is, we will start seeing it more and more in the future.

For the beginners lookin for answers, it's up to you to decide. There's alot of opinions on both sides on here, do your own research and make a decision.

I think maybe we should close this thread and just leave the topic be for now. I look forward to future discussion threads with u ALL.

Have an awesome Sunday night.

Brandon

 

[Salty Cracker]

Meh, these aren't bad arguments.  The bad ones are when someone calls jerry a $#@#$%@ #$@@^&&*$@!!!!! and then deletes it.  Everything else is good fun, and probably good debate.  I don't think pulp and 'freak are about to throw down, and me, well I am guilty for stirring the pot every now and then

 

[Poseidon]

Meh, these aren't bad arguments.  The bad ones are when someone calls jerry a $#@#$%@ #$@@^&&*$@!!!!! and then deletes it.  Everything else is good fun, and probably good debate.  I don't think pulp and 'freak are about to throw down, and me, well I am guilty for stirring the pot every now and then

Haha yea, but I know I was feeling abit annoyed n upset but I don't want there to be hard feelings. You guys all have helped alot and I'd rather just keep it peaceable

And I love a good throw down.

 

[Poseidon]

Just not online*

 

[reeffreak]

not good for thefragtank ? .... 422 veiws .... these are the threads people read to find out what not to do and what to do, thers no name calling, its a debate we are all adults Im not taking any of it personal even tho you call me buds.... lol

 

[Poseidon]

Haha ya 'buds' was out of line XD
I guess, wow there is alot of bystanders eh?

 

[pulpfiction1]

there was an argument?damn i miss everything

 

[AdInfinitum]

there was an argument?damn i miss everything

Yeah, all the good stuff happens while I'm away!  :'(

Is Zakk pissed off about having to pay taxes again?